Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 My Wife's second gen Kia Sephia, the (in)Famous "KiaStein" has been experiencing a Delay in Starting when the engine reaches normal operating temperatures, but it starts quickly when is Cold. Sometimes it will crank and not start, while other times it will start almost right away. It seems as if after Driving / Running for a while it doesn't like to start right away after that, whereas if it sits for a while it tends to start quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 I Borrowed an OBD II scanner from a friend, checked for codes without obtaining any.Also I borrowed a fuel pressure gauge from same friend, in order to......Check the fuel pressure numbers on these circumstances: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 1) Before starting the engine, then 2) After starting it at idle, then 3) Shut it off and measure it again... 4) Let it rest a couple of hours or more and take the numbers with engine still off. 5) Finally, restart the engine and check for pressure numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 The idea was to see if there is a fuel Pressure drop during operation, or it might be happening only while engine gets Warm, after shutting the engine off. I thought that in case there is a fuel Pressure drop after a while, like I pointed in step 4, then the Fuel Pump might be the Culprit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 I found This results:Immediately after the engine is Shut off, the pressure goes down to 10 and then, slowly it goes down more, but as fast as the Starter moves the engine, the Pressure Blows up to 50 once again, and stays there, Rock solid at 50, no matter if engine is warm, cool, at idle, accelerating, with A/C, etc ... it stays solid at 50, until the engine is shut off again.But I borrowed the OBD II Scanner and the Fuel Pressure Gauge, from a friend, who gave those for one day only, and by coincidence, the "KiaStein" never failed to start all that day long ... So, somehow I'm Lost with this at this point...Maybe a Mixture between the fact that the car starts, despite the delay at warm engine temps, and my depression, made me to not dig further onto this problem; but I'll borrow those two tools once again soon, then I'll drive the car normally with them Hooked, instead of doing tests on my home's sidewalk all the afternoon.Kind Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Maybe ignition is at fault? Failure to start when warm is usually an ignition control model failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Maybe ignition is at fault? Failure to start when warm is usually an ignition control model failure. Thank you for the idea. Well, this car features a pretty awesome natural aspirated 1.8L Engine, wich was designed for the Kia (former Lotus) Elan, the T8D engine, wich has two coil packs, one per pair of Cylinders, also has hydraulic lifters, Twin Cam, 16 valves, etc ... it is a non interference engine and according to Wikipedia, it develops more than 150 Hp, but I am Not an expert regarding the MPFi technology, so I am not clear where exactly this engine could have an ignition module... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I may be wrong about that, I can't seem to find any part listing for an ignition control moduel. I was thinking of the older model KIA sephia. Other possiblilitys are coolant temp sensor or maf sensor Coolant temp sensor can be diagnosed with an ohm meter and checking the resistance of the sensor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 ... I was thinking of the older model KIA sephia ... I understand. A lot changed between the first and second generations of Sephias: the First Gen is basically talking, a Korean Ford Escort, while the Second Gen is, basically talking, a Korean Mazda 323 / Protege. The Sephia continues in Production for the LADM (Latin American Domestic Market) as you can see photos on the previous page of this thread. The Coolant Temp Sensor is good idea, I'll check it ASAP. Kind Regards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 There is something pretty interesting related to the Coolant Temperature Sensor on the T8D Engines found on the Second Gen Kia Sephia; some models has only One Sensor which delivers the Signal for both the ECU and the Temperature Gauge on the instrument Cluster; while some others has Two independent Sensors, one for the ECU and another for said Gauge. Let me Show ya: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 Single Coolant Temperature Sensor, Setup:Dual Coolant Temperature Sensors, Setup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 I've seen the Single Sensor Setup, and the Dual Sensors' Setup, on random Second Gen Sephia models from '98 to '01 and random first gen Spectras from '00 to '04 ... Both are the same car, basically with cosmetic changes only, so I could Not find any Logic behind the different setups.A change on the ECU's Wiring perhaps? So, if I have a Single Coolant Temperature Sensor Setup, and the Gauge on the instrument cluster has been working completely Flawlessly, the sensor must be in good working order, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 The "KiaStein" has been working Flawlessly, except for that hard start issue, which doesn't gave any OBD II Codes ... Right now I'm trying with a Concentrated "Greased Lightning" Fuel System Cleaner, poured onto half tank, and driving with gas pedal floored as long as is safe to do that ... I'll post here the Results. I found this information online: Greased Lightning has recently introduced a Fuel System Treatment that is so effective in cleaning the fuel injector system it has recently received a U.S. Patent. Designed to clean better than any fuel additive, Greased Lightning Fuel System Treatment has been proven to be 50% to 100% more effective than top selling brands in removing intake valve deposits!In another battery of tests, the Greased Lightning Fuel System Treatment reduced emissions by up to 80 percent! Greased Lightning’s Fuel System Treatment is the only 12,000 mile fuel treatment in the market and was designed to last 4 times longer than the competition... Here: ~► The Auto ChannelKind Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Just read through this whole entire thread. Exceptional quality workmanship. Regardless of whether people comment or not, you always have very useful and important, helpful information. Hope all is well for you and your family in this new year, Jeszek. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 Just read through this whole entire thread. Exceptional quality workmanship. Regardless of whether people comment or not, you always have very useful and important, helpful information. Hope all is well for you and your family in this new year, Jeszek. Thank you so Much! I really appreciate your kind words, beyond I could ever tell. Kind Regards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 First Report = 1/4 tank used Three days and 85 miles of city driving with that injectors' cleaner additive poured on half tank, and the "KiaStein" really seems to have improved a Lot, and I consider that Amazing, because I tried with Bardahl's Fuel injector cleaner, Techron injector Cleaner, Lucas fuel system cleaner, even with a couple of "El Cheapo" injector cleaners, even tried with some Marvel Mistery Oil, since this issue started many months ago, always without any noticeable change, in fact, the issue kept getting worse and worse...Since I tried with those injector cleaners, I dismissed a clogged fuel injector as probably cause, but this "Greased Lightning" cleaner has proven me Wrong, that issue should have being caused by dirty / Clogged \ fouled fuel injectors for sure...I'll report any change as the other 1/4 of tank + cleaner still remains, waiting to be used.Kind Regards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 19, 2015 Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 Second Report = Rest of the Tank, then new half tank without additive Nope, the thing did not get any better, in fact it got even Worse, let me Explain: The last 1/4 tank + additive went out without any noticeable change, beside the above described situations, but I can tell that the additive gave a hint, letting me know that something was going on with the fuel injectors... Then I refuelled the "KiaStein" to a full tank, this time without any additive, only high octane gasoline; but three days after and the hard starting issue still was there; the additive only reduced the average times needed from turning the Key to start, from four times to two times. So, I decided that I will take out all the four fuel injectors, and do a phisical cleansing on them within this week... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 19, 2015 Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 But Today, early morning start and the car needed only one crank as usual during first cold starts ... but suddenly it developed a Hard shaky idle ... I let it idle for ten minutes in order to let it reach its normal operating temps, but the rough idle was there, so I test drove the car around the block, and it developed misfires, accompanied by a Blinking "Check Engine" Light on the instrument cluster panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 19, 2015 Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 Recently, a Good Friend in USA sent me as gift (Thank you, MR_Loyale), a brand new Scan Tool, today I did the very first use of it, on the "KiaStein" and, beside the two "Normal" codes it always had (P0128 Due to no thermostat and P0422 due to the absence of both catalytic converters) now, it has this "New" code, P0304, see: What do you think about that? I already checked and cleansed the four iridium Sparkplugs that I installed some months ago, they had carbon buildup, which makes me think that the fuel injectors are very dirty; but the fail didn't go, despite that I changed the sparkplug's position on the T8D engine.I don't know if both issues (hard start and Cylinder misfire) are related, but I plan to remove all injectors for a complete cleanup, and try with standard sparkplugs; I'll report any news here.Any idea, suggestion or comment is welcome.Kind Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I've had a simalar issue on my legacy. My problem ended up being a bad injector. Reolaceing the injector on the cylinder that was missing solved my issue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) I found this about P034: A code P0304 may mean that one or more of the following has happened:Faulty spark plug or wire Faulty coil (pack)Faulty oxygen sensor(s)Faulty fuel injector Burned exhaust valveFaulty catalytic converter(s)Running out of fuel Poor compression Defective computer If there are symptoms such as the engine is stumbling or hesitating, check all wiring and connectors that lead to the cylinders (i.e. spark plugs). Depending on how long the ignition components have been in the car, it may be a good idea to replace them as part of your regular maintenance schedule. I would suggest spark plugs, spark plug wires, distributor cap, and rotor (if applicable). Otherwise, check the coils (a.k.a. coil packs). In some cases, the catalytic converter has gone bad. If you smell rotten eggs in the exhaust, your cat converter needs to be replaced. I've also heard in other cases the problems were faulty fuel injectors. http://www.obd-codes.com/p0304 A way to eliminate the injector as the possible cause would be to swap the number 4 with a different one (if it is MPFI). Be sure to get all new seals and O-rings if you take the injectors out. Edited January 20, 2015 by MR_Loyale 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 ... Replaceing the injector on the cylinder that was missing solved my issue I found this about P034: A code P0304 may mean that one or more of the following has happened: Faulty spark plug or wire Faulty coil (pack) ... Thank you Guys for your Kind Help, I really appreciate that. The problems with the "KiaStein" has been Resolved. Let me Explain: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Both issues, the Hard Start and the Cylinder misfire, were not related to each other, but I've resolved Both. I've done testing on the Fuel injectors and Coil Packs, swapping sides between both coil packs and fuel injectors, and I found two things: ► The Fuel injectors were awfully dirty, almost plugged. ► One of the two coil packs, has one dead output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Despite that I've changed the Engine's Long Block (Block + Head), the intake & exhaust manifolds, plus all the EFi stuff, etc, are from the original engine, so they has 180,000 miles old being there; the only wires I've changed were the wires that goes from the plugs outside the engine, to the coil packs themselves, due to bad quality plastic plugs disintegrating. The engine uses Two Coil Packs, each one has Two outlets, after swapping sides between them, the P0304 OBD II Code, changed to P0300: "Multiple Misfires Detected" and, I was able to find which coil pack failed, as the fail moved from one cylinder to another, along the coil pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 I had to buy a New Coil Pack, but as those are equally old, if one failed, the other is about to fail; so I ended buying the Two Coil Packs, brand New; Kia spare parts are Super Cheap and super easily to find in Honduras. These are Aftermarket, but "Made in Korea" Coil Packs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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