Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 I had to work under deep blue, cloudless skies and a shiny Sun this whole weekend, 100º F No Shade tree for me ... Here's the Old Sephia's Master Cylinder out from the Car:This is how the Brake Booster looked like then:Few surface rust, nothing dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 I Removed the Plastic Reservoir Tank from the Sephia's Master Cylinder.Here you can see Both Master Cylinders Together:So, I washed out Clean with Soap, and lots of water, the Plastic tank:And let it dry at the Sun, also I cleansed around the Brake Booster's opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Here you can see how I tested the Sportage's Master Cylinder,onto the Sephia's Brake Booster:Perfect Fit!... ... Now I only needed to Change the Fittings on the Brake Lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 So I cut the ends on the Sephia's Brake lines, in order to Slide out the Original Fittings, then I slided in the New Fittings, and using the Tool I borrowed from my Friend, I was able to make new Flared ends at each Brake Line; as you can see: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 The First Line:Both Lines done:Of course I cleansed everything, prior to Screw the fittings in the Master Cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 This is How everything ended together, already mounted in the Car:It looks Wet, because I washed out everything with Water, once finished,to avoid ruining the paintings around with the Brake Fluid that was Spilled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 I forgot to say that I installed the Plastic Reservoir Tank, from the Sephia's Master Cylinder, onto the Sportage's Master Cylinder; it fits Perfect; there are seven centimetres between each opening on both Master Cylinders.Tip: To avoid Air getting onto the Brake lines, once the Master Cylinder is already fixed in its position, you fill the Plastic Reservoir tank with brake Fluid and ask some friend to Pump the Pedal, while you close both outlets with your Fingers; (I asked my Wife to do that) then, once there is Pressurised Brake fluid coming out from the Master Cylinder, ask to your friend to leave the Brake Pedal pressed. Then you quickly remove one finger from one outlet, and put the Brake Line's fitting on it, as fast as you can, to avoid brake fluid spillage.Repeat procedure with the other Brake line and then, once both lines are correctly plugged, use the proper tool to tighten them well; finally ask to your friend to Release the Brake Pedal.That makes the Master Cylinder to "Suck Out" all the Air that could get inside the Brake Lines when they were open, and you won't need to Bleed the Brakes after the Master Cylinder install.That idea has been working Flawlessly for me for Decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 I must say, that I did this "Master Cylinder Transplant" without adjusting the Rear Drum Brake's Shoes, so they were a little loose as every other Sephia usually is always; so the average Sephia owner, which usually drives with deregulated rear brakes, could be aware on How this transplant affects the Overal Braking Behaviour.The whole "Master Cylinder Transplant" job, took me the Saturday's Morning only to be finished, so I had all the Afternoon & Night to do the Braking Tests; plus all the Sunday to come.After the install works concluded; I Started to do the Driving Tests on the Sephia.Remember, the Sephia is Still on its original Configuration of Front Discs / Rear Drums, and does Not have ABS brakes; just "plain jane" Brakes.All that tests where done by me alone, and I drove across the Big City, on Speedways, Unpaved Roads, Hard Traffic and Traffic Jams, etc... on Different driving Speeds and Conditions; the car acted excellent, I did many errands, such like giving back to my friend the especial tool to make the flared ends at the brake lines; then I went to WalMart to buy Groceries, went to Napa to buy a Brand New Air Filter and went to PriceSmart, to buy some things for my parents...I drove all Saturday's Afternoon and when Night times came; I decided that the car was Safe Enough to take out my Family to a Huge Shoppin' Mall; where my Little Daughter loves to play at their "Playland Park" for Children, and have a little family dinner out.The "KiaStein" with the Bigger Master Cylinder felt Awesome: No More Spongy Brakes!During Sunday's early Morning, I went completely alone to do the "High Speed Braking Tests", after those were completed, during the afternoon I went with my Family in the "KiaStein" to a small mountain's top village, named "Santa Lucia" testing the Sephia on a family trip on road / offroad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Driving Test Results:Slow to Medium Speed Testings:► First Slowly on the Parking Lot where I worked on the Swap; immediately I noticed that the Brake Pedal, which needed to travel pushed inward, almost 60% Before the Brakes started to stop the Car, Now it was Risen Up, and only needed 20% of Travel pushed inward, before starting to Stop the Car; That is Awesome!► Also I noticed that the Rear Drums started to emit their usual braking Noise, earlier; I mean The Rear Shoes touches the Rotating Drums almost at the Same Time that Front Pads touches the Front Rotors; which with the smaller Master Cylinder, took much more Effort (Pedal Pressing) to "Hear that Braking Noise" coming from the Rear.► Then I headed the Car to the Street, the Brake Pedal is not only Risen Up, but way more Firmer than it never was; also gained sensitiveness: Now I only need to Touch it with my Shoe, to slow down from 20 MPH, 30 MPH, and 40 MPH seamlessly.__________________________________________Medium to High Speed Testings:► To Slow Down from any Speed further than 40 MPH is as effective as on Slower Speeds, only touching the Pedal with regular effort do that well; but if you need to Slow Down Faster than the Average, then the Brake Pedal needs to be Pushed inward a little more with more leg effort.Here is where I noticed that the Pedal was more Stiff than it used to be / should be; the Braking Behaviour is really Awesome, the car brakes perfectly in a straight line; but the Brake Pedal is Harder than it was.► Faster Braking from faster speeds: (lets say 60 MPH ~ 80 MPH) requires Even More Leg Effort to Push down the Stiff Brake Pedal, but is Doable; the Car Brakes Stable, Reduces speed pretty fast without locking the wheels, and still you have the around 40% of Pedal Travel Available; while with the Smaller Master Cylinder, for the same Braking Effort, the Brake Pedal would be about to touch the Floor...All that, along many, many miles of normal driving were done during Saturday.___________________________________________► Panic Braking!Sunday's early Morning I went alone to a Solitary paved Road and I accelerated the Car to almost 80 MPH, then, being completely sure that no car was following me, I Floored the Brake Pedal like Mad ... It was Really Stiff, but I Locked the Four Wheels, but not completely locked; the car stopped with four screaming tires as it Should with such Panic Braking.But there is Something Wrong: it requires a Lot of Leg Strength to do that, and the Brake Pedal seemed to have still more Travel that won't go in ... you know, it was at Maximum Pressure, or the Calipers seemed to had some little more pressure left unused.I Repeated that Test, faster a couple of times, then even Faster (This time I was nervous and didn't check the Speedometer) and the Car Really Stops pretty Well, it even Locks the Four Wheels at the Same Time, I ended with the car stopped and completely wrapped onto a white cloud of smoke coming from the Hot Tires.I went down the Sephia to see the Brake Marks... perfect! ...but suddenly I noticed that there were some people looking at me with mouth wide open, like if I'm crazy ... I stopped in front of a Home! ... ... So I left the Place without taking Photos of the Braking Marks.__________________________________________Conclusion:► Yes, the Sephia Needs a Bigger Master Cylinder for Sure, but ...► No, it don't need to be 1" ... It should work Better with 15/16"Despite that, I don't consider the KiaStein to be Dangerous, somehow even I feel more confident to Drive a Car that has a Taller & Stronger Responsive Brake Pedal, Rather than a Lower & Spongy unsensitive Brake Pedal for Sure.So, as I'm tight on Money now; I will switch cars with my Wife until I could buy online the Sportage's 15/16" Master Cylinder with elongated Push Rod, meanwhile I'll drive the KiaStein, and let her drive my "BumbleBeast", as the Subaru has a Soft Pedal with Stronger four wheel Disc Brakes which never gave me a single problem in all these past three decades.Kind Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 About the Legendary Weak Brakes on the Second Gen Kia Sephia, the conclusion is that the Faulty Parts are three:1) Completely Useless self adjusters for the Shoes, at the Rear Drum Brakes: - they lend the Rear brakes to almost do Nothing, So the Front Brakes alone have to bear with the vehicle's braking, with the consequent premature wear to front Rotors & Pads.2) Bad Designed "Leaky" Proportioning Valves: - they let brake fluid to Leak from their vertical grooves, while let Air to get inside the pipes: Lends to "Spongy" feeling Brake Pedal3) Small Bore Master Cylinder: - Lends to "Deep Traveling" Brake Pedal.________________________________________________The Solutions are:A) Change the Leaky proportioning Valves, with the Newer Design "Grooveless" improved by Kia. I did that alreadyB) Increase the Master Cylinder a little Bit, to get rid from the "Deep Traveling" brake Pedal: The original 7/8" Master Cylinder will be ideally changed with a 15/16" Master cylinder, as Kia did for their Luxury Sephias which featured Rear Disc Brakes.C) Install Rear Disc Brakes: - Coming Soon!See this Thread for Further information:~► http://www.kia-forums.com/2g-1998-2001-sephia/81255-kia-sephia-weak-brakes-solved-mystery.html Kind Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) About the letter B ... "Increase the Master Cylinder a little Bit" ... I wanted to change the 7/8" master cylinder, but I had to use a 1" Master Cylinder, because I never found the ideal 15/16" one in Honduras where I live.The 1" master cylinder raises the pedal gets rid from the Spongy Brake pedal feeling and gives an awesome stronger braking feeling; but it makes the pedal stiff and you must do more leg effort, especially during panic braking ... the ideal change is to 15/16"I am NOT suggesting nor telling you to do this change. Disclaimer: Use all the information / photos \ videos I post, at your own risk.You can watch this very short video I did, with footage taken fifteen minutes before I started the Master Cylinder swap job, and footage taken fifteen minutes after that job was done, so you can notice the different Brake Pedal Behaviour on both Master Cylinders, see: ► Edit: I forgot to say that since youtube has been blocking some of my Videos, due to the Background Music I used, and copyright blah, blah, blah... Now I'm using Weird small parts of different songs, sorted around my Videos, so their system might not detect any particular song... AND THE RESULTS ARE FUNNY! Edited April 14, 2014 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) Today, something interesting happened...Using the very few spare time I has, I've been Helping a Good Local Friend to fix his Enormous Touring Wagon, which is a Hyundai Galloper II, a nine seater, Turbo Diesel, Dual Range 4X4 tank... by the way, here is a Photo I took of it in front of the Honduran Bar Association's country club, some time ago: So I went to his place, and we ended talking about the Master Cylinder adaptation I did, on the "KiaStein", after we finished, he asked kind permission to do a test drive on it, in order to assure that the Brakes are OK or not.After an almost silent five minutes together on the "KiaStein" while he drove it and tested the Brakes at different speeds; finally he told me that the overal Brakes' Behaviour is pretty Good, and that maybe the Weak Braking / Hard Pedal I feel during Panic Braking Only, should be -in part- Caused for the Misadjusted Shoes at the Rear Drum Brakes...Yes, it does make sense, because I installed the Master Cylinder, Without doing the "Montly" Adjustment to the Rear Brake Shoes, which were misadjusted for sure...So I might either adjust the Rear Shoes this Weekend and re-do the Brake Tests, or wait for the Local Kia Dealer to give me the Dust Shield Plates I need, to do the Rear Disc Brakes' Swap...Somehow I hesitated to do the Rear Shoes' adjustment, because the Rear Drums are Oval and tend to Lock Easy, and I was afraid that the Rear wheels could lock even Easier with this New, Bigger Master Cylinder.Kind Regards. Edited April 11, 2014 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 Today's early morning, I went to the Local Kia Dealer to ask about the delivery date, of my new Backing Plates (Dust Shields) for the Rear Disc Brakes, and the salesman, after checking on his computer, told me that they are programmed to arrive to Honduras in April 27, so I must wait 'till the first days of May (Around my Birthday) in order to receive them and start the Rear Disc Brakes' Swap.About this: ... So I might either adjust the Rear Shoes this Weekend and re-do the Brake Tests, or wait for the Local Kia Dealer to give me the Dust Shield Plates I need, to do the Rear Disc Brakes' Swap... Since I will have to wait many days, I decided to adjust the Rear Shoes; so after I came home from the Kia Dealer, I grabbed my Tools and did what should be -hopefully- the Last adjustment to the Rear Drum Brakes...Before I adjusted the Rear Drums' Shoes, the Handle for the Parkin' Brake needed to be almost all the way up in order to let the Rear Drums to hold The car stop; now after the adjustment, the Handle only needs two teeth for the same job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 I decided to Repeat the Braking Tests, after I finished the Rear Shoes' adjustment job, in order to see How the increased bore Master Cylinder, affects the overall braking handling of the Sephia, when all the Wheels has the proper balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 I went to the Same Paved Road, which is not much used, while I was going there, I tested the Brakes at Low and Medium speeds. Immediately I noticed that the Brake Pedal was raised up a little more; and has much Better sensitivity; I only needed to "Touch" it softly and the car started to stop... the Total amount of free movement on the pedal, were reduced around the Half it was.Once I was on that solitary road and after being completely Sure that no car nor motorbike was following me, being sure that I was travelling on the Sephia completely alone on said road; I applied the Brakes like Mad, while the Sephia was doing 80 M.P.H.Very Surprised and Happily, let me Tell you that the Braking Force in the Sephia, increased a Lot, the car took much less travel to stop in a Straight line, with the Brake Pedal Pushed in a "Panic Braking" mode, you know: At Full Braking: The four wheels did not locked immediately, the car stopped super fast, while inclined the nose to the ground; and the wheels locked at the end of the stopping travel; leaving marks on the pavement.I did many more tests at different Speeds; I noticed that the car now does Not need extremely force on the Pedal to Stop the Car, now it needs a little Less force and brake pedal travel to stop the Car safely and the car needs less travel to do so; but the Brake Pedal keeps being stiffer than the Average.Somehow, I'm starting to Like very Much the "Brand New Car Brakes" feeling I'm having with this increased bore Master Cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 For the average "daily driver" use, the Brakes behaviour and the brake Pedal Movement is Perfect; it is only a very little amount of increased leg force you need, comparing to the average car on same size / segment; No more spongy, weak brake pedal feeling for sure.The stiffness on the pedal is felt more during high speeds braking / panic braking only.Kind Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy777 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Awesome work and research on the master cylinder! I think when you get the rear discs on the pedal travel will increase a very slight amount, but the braking performance should be more consistent. I ran across a similar issue over 10 years ago when I swapped WRX front calipers on my Legacy. The pedal travel increased and altered how the car stopped. I did a bunch of research and the SVX was the only othe Subaru that was non-abs and had the larger 1-1/16" bore master cylinder. I ended up swapping that in and it helped the pedal feel and travel. I have since swapped to a single diaphragm brake booster from early model Impreza and that has improved the pedal feel even more. Keep us posted when you swap the rear discs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 Thank you for your Kind Words, which are really Appreciated. ...Keep us posted when you swap the rear discs. Yes, I will do. I hope that somehow, someway, someday, this info will be helpful for others. Kind Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 This week in Honduras, and many Central American / Latin American countries, is the "Holy Week" and my Wife & I don't have to go to our Jobs, nor my Daughter to her Kindergarden; I was planning to do the Rear Disc Brakes' Swap onto the "KiaStein" during this Summer Vacation Week, but the Kia Dealer will give me the Backing Plates 'till next month.So, we decided to make a "Tour" across Central America, while testing the New Master Cylinder which is working Awesome.In fact, I'm posting from Nicaragua right now; we're heading to Costa Rica. The Moderators can confirm it, since they view the I.P. address of the computer I'm using @ a local Cybercafé.I'm glad to report that after more than 160K miles on the Trasmission, 80K Miles on Engine, The "KiaStein" is working Flawlessly, shifting smoothly and braking nice, thanks to God.Kind Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 25, 2014 Author Share Posted April 25, 2014 ... Some "data" on your post... Your IP when you posted to the forum was 190.212.231.181 (static IP) That location is in the region of Granada, Nicaragua The Internet service provider was Telgua Approximately 33 miles North of Costa Rica's border ... Absolutely Accurate! Yes, we spent a Night on that city, which was somehow in the Middle of the Trip to Costa-Rica, then we noticed that Granada is so Peaceful and Retro, that you feel like you travelled in time to the 18th Century; so we decided to stay more days at Granada, and traveled to another Nicaraguan City named Masaya, so my Little Daugther could see an Active Volcano in Person; she likes volcanos and Honduras does Not have any. Finally we went to Costa-Rica but for shorter time (one day & Back). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 26, 2014 Author Share Posted April 26, 2014 We returned to Honduras the last sunday's night, very late and we all were exhausted, but the Trip was very Fun, especially if you think that we did not planned anything ... ...I decided to take the whole family to a Trip without planning it too much; improvisation is the word that best describes the whole story... we were in low budget, so we slept among backpackers in small hotels; but the truth is that we ended traveling around 2,000 Kilometers (1,200 Miles) in total, thanks God, the "KiaStein" uses very little Fuel on Highways.Seems like for People who work hard all year around, like us, the "Holy Week" summer vacations is the only space we got for doing such travels, but we did never forgot to attend to the Mass, in the Churches at Different Cities.The Idea for that travel came from my Li'l Daughter, because She dreamt to see a Volcano in "Person" since many time ago; Honduras in the Only one Country in the Caribbean Central America which does Not have a Single Volcano; we're in the "Volcano Free" Area. As the Trip wasn't "planned" we forgot to take some things with us, such like my Camera's Battery Charger... ...I don't know why the Sony Engineers did not make a Camera that recharges its battery inside; it does not do that; you need to take it Out from the Camera and put it onto a wall charger. It is the Sony DSC-H90, which I paid in monthly installments to a Huge electronics store here, some time ago.So we took few Photos while the Battery Lasted ... ... I'll upload some of them here, ASAP. Kind Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 26, 2014 Author Share Posted April 26, 2014 Pictures Time!!!Honduras is So Mountainous, that sometimes you can seethe Clouds Below you, while driving on the Mountain Roads.Here I was Driving my Wife's car, the "KiaStein"Gotta Love that the RPM's stays very Low while Cruising! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 26, 2014 Author Share Posted April 26, 2014 Some Nicaraguan Roads:Artifical "Trees" (just like the Lorax movie) and Windy Weatherat the City of Managua, Nicaragua.Windy Weather at the City of Managua, Nicaragua. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 26, 2014 Author Share Posted April 26, 2014 The People of Granada, Nicaragua, Loves carriages, there are many there,even this one, a painted Sculpture in a road at the entrance of that city.Nice group of Old Carriages parked around the Center Plaza at the city of Granada, Nicaragua.Of course my Li'l Daughter chose this one to take a Ride with us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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