EJ25 Head Gasket: How to tell if it *HAS* been changed (98 Forester)

[ldeikis]

Hi all. I'm somewhat new to subaru's but not to working on cars or online forums. I've found a ton of information on here from searching and am looking forward to being a part of the board. The question:

 

We're looking to get a used but modern (last ~10 years) subaru. A friend of a friend is moving across the country and needs to sell his 98 Forester in the next couple few weeks. Because we're friends and he's under pressure and he got it for a steal to begin with, he's offering it to us for a bargain ($1500). I'm seeing the car this weekend, so I'll know much more about it then. The story as I understand it is that the car started life as a rental (I know, red flags), at 40k it was bought by a subaru dealer in Colorado where he was living. The daughter of this subaru dealer, who's a friend of the current owner, owned the car through college. When she graduated she received a brand new car as a gift, and this friend bought the Forester from her. Before the car came to NY 2 years ago it had a bunch of preventative maintenance done (timing belt and some other stuff--I'm seeing receipts this weekend). It's been dealer maintained its whole life.

 

The car has 150k on it currently.

 

I get what to look for for a LEAKING head gasket--bubbles in the overflow, milky oil, froth in the oil cap, sludgey coolant tank. If it isn't currently blown, how can I tell if the head gasket HAS already been changed? IE, how do I tell if it's got a new-syle gasket that'll last forever, or somehow magically hasn't blown the old one and is a time bomb waiting to happen???

 

Also, if anyone wants to weigh in and offer a reality check on purchasing a car that you know was a rental at one point, I'm open. It raised a huge red flag for me, but the price seems like a steal. The current owner I trust to be a completely stand up guy who's being totally honest with what he knows about the car, but he's not a car guy at all.

 

Thanks for any input.

 

Luke in NY

[Ross]

Find a bit of th ehead gasket that you can see (around the front coerner of the engine there is a good spot IIRC). The original ones are a single layer fibrerous looking thing, and are carbon coloured. The replacement ones are a multi layer metal gasket, you should be able to see the multiple layers.

 

You likely wont see any singns of HG failure in the oil on the EJ25, just look at the coolant. As you mentioned check for bubbles in the radiator, altough if the coolant level is lowish you may see bubbles even when there is no HG failure.

 

Smelling the radiator overflow tank is a good way to check for a blown HG IMO. If it has a blown head gasket, it will smell like exhaust gases. Otherwise it should just smell sweet like anti-freeze.

[Mike104]

Here is a link to a thread that gives lots of info on the original and the new Multi Layer Steel (MLS)

 

http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-head-gasket-problems-explained/

 

Good Luck

[idosubaru]

newer style has tabs "ears" if you will, that stick out of it. i actually have an old one and new one lying in my garage i keep meaning to take pictures of. it's multi layered too, obviously, and that shows if it's not too old corroded, dirty which some are by now.

[bheinen74]

the thing and only thing, to look for in this gen era of ej25 is the overflow tank for coolant, right next to radiator.

if it is cruddy'd up then there ya go its blowing exhaust gases into it.

thats it.

 

also take the car on a 30 minute drive, with AC on, weahter AC is needed or not. Leave the car running after that drive, pull it over, and pop the hood with it still running. flip up the coolant overflow tank lid, look in, and if you see BUBBLEs, then the HG is already blown and pay no more than 1200-1500.

 

If no bubbles its still good. then goes back to if it has already had HG job and what version.

bh

[johnceggleston]

if you refer to the pics in the link above you will notice that the original gasket has round holes in the tabs at the corners and the new gasket has a more rectangular "stamp" in the tabs at the corners.

 

i look for these. but that's not as easy as crawling under the car and looking for the long tabs sticking out next to the exhaust ports, newer is much longer. and the corners are easier to see from below, i think, less stuff in the way. so it is easier from below unless it is raining, parked on gravel, you are wearing good clothes, etc.

[tomson1355]

Luke,

 

Where are you in upstate NY? I'm in northern Chenango County. I'm putting together my fourth DOHC head gasket job (first was a 98 Forester) right now. If you're not far away and need assistance, let me know.

 

Even if the HGs are bad, $1500 for a 98 Forester in good shape is a good price. I'd buy it regardless.

 

Tom

Earlville, NY

[ldeikis]

Tom,

 

We're in northern Columbia County, a touch southeast of Albany, so it'd be a bit of a trip for you--but thanks for the offer.

 

Thanks all for the input. Something came up for the guy selling it and he couldn't meet us today (and I'm working tomorrow) so we're trying to find a time to see the car this week. I'm going to print out one of the pictures from that link, that looks really helpful. Looking for round vs rectangular punch marks will probably be the ticket for me--longer vs shorter ears is a hard call if it's the first and only one you're looking at, and I imagine the whole scene will be a bit grimy. I wouldn't buy a car without slithering under it anyway.

 

I'll post back and let you all know how it goes. One way or another I expect we're getting a subaru, so I ought to be around here a touch.

 

Thanks,

 

Luke

[sonofbuster]

anyone have a picture of the 'tabs' to look for as installed in the engine? i have no symptoms of the HG issue and have a appointment into the shop at the end of the week for timing belt work, but i'd love to see for myself. thanks..

[idosubaru]

the two i have laying on the floor seem to suggest you'll see only a tab on the newer version. the older version isn't really a tab, more or less just a contour of the gasket. so if you see a distinct tab - roughly 1 inch by 1/2" sticking out you've got the new ones. don't have an internet connection here worthy of posting pic's or i would.

Edited October 25, 2010 by grossgary

[johnceggleston]

new

 

 

new + old

 

[Gloyale]

New ones have a bump in the corner

 

Old ones have a rivet with a hole through it

 

See above pic.

[ldeikis]

We finally managed to check the car out today. Thanks to everyone here, I'm pretty sure the head gaskets are the new style... but I'd love anyone's confirmation on that. Here's pics (I used a scrap of rag to clean them off a bit).

 

 

 

 

The car runs and drives nice, the only thing that caught my eye was a significant amount of wetness on the rear differential/transaxle. The current owner had it checked out at one of those quickie lube places 700 miles ago and his receipt says they checked the rear differential fluid and it's ok. I don't trust those places any further than I could throw one, but the fill plug was in there tight as hell (impact wrench?) and I couldn't get enough leverage to open it without jacking the car way up and using a cheater... so I didn't. No weird noises when driving, though. I'll check it ASAP if we buy the vehicle. It's going to need tires soon--might even fail inspection--and the windshield has a few chips, and I still need to see a receipt for the timing belt... but I think we'll get it.

 

Wet transaxle: (tell me it's no big deal)

 

 

Thanks everyone. Looking forward to being part of the board... and if anyone wants to confirm that HG is a new one, I'd love to hear it.

 

Luke