Zem Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Hello. I'm over on AWDPirates but I don't think my requests for help are of much use. I thought I might try here. I am officially stumped. I wish I could even say what this car is. I believe it is mostly an 84 turbo coupe. The fuel injectors are from an 88 XT multiport. I acquired this car recently and it has been around the people of this forum. I have fixed several things here and there, but now I've hit a wall. The previous state was this... -Low power. -Backfirish noise coming from vicinity of turbo under any load. -After just 30 miles, the new spark plug in cylinder 3 was black (carbon). -Other plugs look mostly normal, but may show a little whiteness of knock (lean? timing?) I replaced that spark plug. I also bought a refurbished fuel injector. I put a timing light over the cylinder 3 spark plug wire to verify it was flashing. I checked the firing order. I checked the timing. With the new plug and injector, I started it up and... -Initially, would not rev above 2000 rpm (floored, in neutral). -After 10 minutes, I could rev it to maybe 5000 rpm. -I drove around the block. Horse drawn carriage would be faster. Very lower power. -I checked cylinder 3... black again after just 15 minutes. I then verified that with the car ON but not running, both wires on that fuel injector wire showed 12V. Some other things I haven't fixed yet. It is a digi-dash, and there is no reading for the coolant temp at all. I don't know whether that is a gauge or actual sensor issue. The fuel gauge is also completely random. Sometimes it shows about half as much fuel as I have, sometimes it shows I am completely out, and every so often it shows just about right where it should. Fundamentally, here is my problem... something is affecting cylinder 3 differently than the others. Many things could be wrong with the car (turbo, for example), but that should affect all the cylinders the same. I honestly don't know what to check right now. If it were a warm sunny day and I had all my friends ready to help me, I would just stare at the car blankly. Any help would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Does it have a manual trans swap? if it's a 5spd, it will probably have an ea82 flywheel, which the ign timing marks are 30 degrees different. You will have to go by counting rotations and finding #1 TDC by hand. The initial timing should be set to 25 deg BTDC Cylinder 3 tends to run hottest or leanest by design of the heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zem Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 Does it have a manual trans swap? if it's a 5spd, it will probably have an ea82 flywheel, which the ign timing marks are 30 degrees different. You will have to go by counting rotations and finding #1 TDC by hand. The initial timing should be set to 25 deg BTDC Cylinder 3 tends to run hottest or leanest by design of the heads. It is indeed a manual swap. I just did timing just by the 84 manual, which was 15 deg BTDC. Timing could easily be messed up. For that matter I could have the firing order messed up even though I checked it against all the sources I could find. This is something for me to stumble through, but how does the flywheel change the orientation of the pulley? I thought the pulley was fixed with relation to the crank shaft. It's not that I don't believe you, it's that this is the first pushrod and distributor motor I have ever messed with. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 The timing marks are different on an ea82 flywheel than the ea81, since the ea82 has the disty driven from the cam, whereas the ea81 has the disty driven by the crank/cam gear firing order will be the same for either example. The reason for the higher initial timing is that is its advance range, but the knock sensor manually retards the timing to below 25 when needed. I am more familiar with the ea82, although i had an ea81t with a 5spd swap millions of years ago. You will want to know if you ahve the ea81 flywheel or the ea82 flywheel(which would be original to the trans). the III marks for the 'timing belt' alignment between both ea81 and ea82 flywheels is in the same location. This represents all 4 pistons are at the center of their stroke at the same time. From this mark, rotate to get #1 TDC and go from there. #1 is the passenger side front cylinder. Firing is 1-3-2-4 with counterclockwise rotation. Crank pulles are not used for timing marks, but rather, the flywheel. If you think you might find the o deg position, mark it on the flywheel as a reference. Someone with more experience with this engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zem Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 Ok, I think I understand. My pulley was marked, though I don't know by whom or when. I just made the mark on the pulley line up at 15 degrees on the... thing with the marked degrees from 0 to 25, and I don't know what it's called. I haven't done a thing with the flywheel. Hopefully Shawn or Jerry can tell me what flywheel is on there and how it should shake out since it went through both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86subieXT Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Adjust distributor timing back. If timing is good Meter the MAF Sensor. Meter the Thermoswitch sensor. check for any oil in intake pipes. Gap plugs down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry DeMoss Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Very interesting to hear peoples ideas. I will do a little more research and then find out what seems to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKghandi Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Sounds like the same ghost problem ive got. Check the coolant temp sensor and the Maf and while your at it check the fuel pressure regulator My car 87gl10 does the exact same thing with the Maf unhooked what that means I have no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 We need a picture of this engine. Hard to say if you have an EA81T or an EA82T in there by your descriptions.... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Ok, I think I understand. My pulley was marked, though I don't know by whom or when. I just made the mark on the pulley line up at 15 degrees on the... thing with the marked degrees from 0 to 25, and I don't know what it's called. I haven't done a thing with the flywheel. Hopefully Shawn or Jerry can tell me what flywheel is on there and how it should shake out since it went through both of them. EA-81Ts use the crank pulley for timing adjustment.No need to worry about swapped flywheels. You are supposed to unplug the 2 pole black connector that is between the disty and the knock control computer w/setting timing.Practicaly,I don`t think it makes much difference in MOST cases. I would check compression,vacuum etc. Swap the "misbehaving injectors" to another location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zem Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'll get some pictures up tonight. Identifying what I have will obviously help. For example, the MAF... I have the 84 Subaru manual. I found where it tells me how to test the MAF. It shows 4 wires. When I got into the MAF itself, it's 5 wires. The coolant temperature sensor may be fubared. I'll need to figure out where that is and how to test it, but presumably that's in the manual. It's also possible the wires are broken. The gauge on the dash shows nothing. It just seems odd that the MAF or coolant sensor could cause one cylinder to be very rich and not the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) You have an 84. Look at the pinout of the a/f meter plug.It shows 5 wires.My 84 has 5. Are you sure that blackness is not oil? Edited February 15, 2012 by naru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zem Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 I suppose it could be oil. We did a leak down test and that side checked out fine (the other side was bad, and it was fixed). Maybe the timing issues killed a head gasket in 50 miles. I'll try it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zem Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Ok, I did another leakdown test. The cylinder itself is holding strong with less than 10% leakage. I took some pictures of the engine for identification. I'm not sure what you're looking for, though. They aren't very good, but let's see if I can upload them without looking too retarded... Obviously the intake is just sitting there since I took it off to get to the cylinder. And there's the little bastard right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Yes,there is an ea-81t under the modifications. Leakdown test only tests the compression rings not the oil control rings. Normally they wear at a similar rate so a leakdown test usually provides oil ring info by inference only. Additionally,leakdown test won`t detect cylinder defects below TDC or bad valve guides/seals. You may be aware that the actual #s on the gauge are not that meaningful(10% leakage on a large engine is more than on a small engine),but, different readings on known good/bad cyldrs are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zem Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 The engine was recently rebuilt. My concern was the head gasket, and that seems fine. Yes, I know it's static so it only tests the one point, but that's the best I have right now. This is an embarrassing question... what exactly is the coolant temperature sensor? I mean, which of the various gizmos in ancient technology is it? My guess is that it is either the plug facing straight up just to the left of the distributor or, God forbid, the plug that is about 8 inches straight down from that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 ECU coolant temperature sensor is the 2 wire one beside the vac advance. Gauge sensor is the 1 wire one nearby. You need to figure out for sure if that is oil or carbon from rich running. My guess is oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zem Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Well, ************. That will be a mess to replace if it's bad. The spark plug is a dry, matte finish. Everything I can find online shows oil will look glossy and carbon will be matte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Gotta good photo? If you are convinced it is fluffy from rich running,swap that injector w/one from a good cyl.See if the problem moves.Swap the plug and wire too if possible. IIRC,the injectors are fired in pairs so an ECU problem should show on 2 cyl..Measure and compare injector pulse widths w/a dwell meter,digital meter or scope if concerned.Or swap ECUs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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