aircraft engineer Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) Changed fuel filter - not fuel problem can smell the gas and see soot in exhaust pipe outlet. EJ-22 series I Runs sometimes "well" but spits and misses others. new plugs today - no net effect. Haven't been able to get to Auto Zone for a scan. (yet - will chance it later - 5 miles) Limped home Thu noon and haven't had the time to do anything except change plugs and fuel filter Ideas? Unknown when last timing belt was done but I've put 55k on the car since I got it. now has 205. BELT WAS DONE ONCE FOR SURE I'm suspecting a sensor but no idea which one Edited April 28, 2012 by aircraft engineer is a series I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) the 97 ej22 has a 60k timing belt interval. so unless it was done just before you bought it, it is probably due. if the belt was done at 120k, you may be 30k past due. but more on topic, does the mis and lack of power feel like the timing is off? is it better at low rpm or high rpm? or the same? if the belt is off far enough, it COULD possibly bend valves. when you finish checking the other easy stuff, you might want to remove the cam timing covers and see if the cams are aligned with each other. if you remove the crank bolt so you can see the ''key way'' in the pulley, (see the ky way and mark the pulley, reinstall the crank bolt.) you can also check to see if the crank timing is correct. crank key way at the 6 oclock position (this puts the crank timing mark at the 12 oclock position), cam hash marks at the 12 oclock position. going this far is only slightly easier than pulling the crank pulley and center timing cover to check the crank sprocket timing mark. Edited April 28, 2012 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Check engine light On? That may give some clues. Did you replace plugs and wires or just the plugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recian Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I would pull the plugs and check since theyre clean now. If one has fuel on it then youve got a leaky injector or faulty coil causing a misfire. Also does it run rough at idle? If so unplug the maf and see if it clears up. Mafs can cause it to richen too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 (edited) When started after replacing the plugs, there was some smoke and then it ran OK for a few seconds. After a while I started it and drove 5 miles to Auto Zone. Checked for engine codes - NONE. BUT...AFTER I turned it off it wouldn't start for 10 minutes. The A-Z guy said he saw puffs of black smoke coming out the rear and thought it had been flooded. FINALLY got it started and drove it home. (no miss, beats me - running just like "normal") Maybe a temperature related electrical issue? BTW - All I replaced was the plugs If I weren't losing my hair I'd pull out what's left. Anyway - Took it home, checked the fuel - clean. NOW it's running FINE (I did disconnect and replug the coil module while I was pumping some fuel out the fuel filter outlet port - reduce ignition chance with the raw gas) The A-Z guy thought it might be a corroded cam sensor pickup. OK - but WHY is it running FINE NOW? BTW - I HATE doing a timing belt - it's not "difficult" just "time consuming" (Series I is "non-interference") Edited April 29, 2012 by aircraft engineer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Find someone with a scanner and check the ECT reading. Or drop $25 on an ECT sensor (the two wire type). I think it can be tested with an ohmmeter, but I'm not sure of the values, and it's a little difficult to get to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 the episode at AZ does sound like an ects issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 so this AM on my way to my language class, it ran fine UNTIL I STOMPED ON IT - then it went back to the missing - made it into the parking lot and it died - had to push it 20 feet or so. Let it sit for 3 hours (the class time) - went out and it started up but missed off and on until a couple of miles down the road - then it seemed fine again. Anybody know fuel pressure output at the pump? I have a fuel pressure tester I got from Harbor Freight - might as well USE it. (new in the box) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Around 35 psi if I remember right. You can get a small length of fuel hose and T it in right by the fuel filter under the hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 swapped the coil pack - started fine then started rough running in 2 miles or so stalled a couple of times on the way back. If I keep the RPM "up" it runs in neutral but will not idle (most of the time - but not always) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Read all the posts, and still couldn't tell if this is an electrical or fuel related problem. Out of all this mess, is/are there any CEL codes to read? Otherwise, this is like trying to track down a ghost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 NO CEL codes set. It's a ghost for sure. Next it's off the handy dandy wrecking yard and get the crank and cam sensors and try swapping them out one at a time - also try to do a circuit trace in the wiring drawing and see if there is something "obvious". It's not a code item and seems to manifest itself when the engine starts to heat up. I need to check the fuel pump but it sure doesn't seem like fuel starvation. What are the symptoms of a timing belt slip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 if you arte going to pull parts, get a fuel pump. there have been cases of intermittent fuel pumps causing headaches. just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankosolder2 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I would also consider the MAF sensor- they can be highly intermittent and not set codes. As Fairtax mentioned, the coolant temp sensor is also a good suspect and is a common failure, so +1 on that. Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 done a comp test ? burnt valve ? valve addjustment ? any poping out of exhaust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 I'm thinking that it's the MAF - easy enough to check and see - easy to clean, too. Would fit the "started acting up after the hi flow rate from stomping on it". How does the coolant sensor affect the spark? and where is it (or "are they") Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Coolant sensor affects fuel mixture. When the engine is cold the ECU pours in a little more fuel to get the engine started. Once the engine warms up it doesn't need the extra fuel, and having too much will make it run rough. The problem with the ECT comes in when it tells the ECU the engine is cold, when it's really warm, or vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) cleaning the MAF seemed to help quite a bit but it isn't all gone. Will go get a "different" MAF and maybe replace some of the VAC hose as well. Might as well put my old coil pack back on, too. will go find my fuel pressure gage and see what it tells me, too Edited May 2, 2012 by aircraft engineer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 uumm tower my plane's missing and i'm losing altitude please help lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) Just did a 10 mile run - seems to be "fixed" - the dirty MAF was the problem. I added a bottle of gas line cleaner/ water pick-up "just in case". anyway - an airplane story - Or as one of my former bosses related (true story - he was driving the Cessna) "Cessna 54charlie, Boeing tower- Runway 27 right, wind 250 at 6 knots,cleared for takeoff" "54 Charlie" 30 seconds later at about 500' (still over the 2.2 mile long runway) "Boeing tower, 54 charlie - I seem to have lost #1 engine" {2 or 3 second pause) "54 charlie, you're a Cessna 172...you only HAVE 1 engine" "I KNOW" "54 charlie cleared to land any direction..." (by the way - the rest of the story - Boeing Flying Club aircraft, just out of maintenance. The mechanic came out with fire in his eyes asking "what didja do to MY AIRCRAFT?" Turns out he hadn't tightened the cable clamp on the throttle linkage so the cable slipped out - the engine would only IDLE) Anyway Ivan - usual tower response to that situation would be "OK - we'll send out the equipment for you" Edited May 2, 2012 by aircraft engineer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted May 6, 2012 Author Share Posted May 6, 2012 So the problem came back again - I went and borrowed the MAF of my sister's Imp (also 97) and the problem went away. So it was off to my local junkyard for another. Got 2 - 1 off a 99 Forester and another off 96 Imp 2.2. The ID plate numbers are slightly different - but I installed the 99 anyway. Seems to work fine. Will know soon enough when it comes to fueling - I hope to see an improvement in the 25 around town. with the dieing MAF it averaged 23.5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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