1996 Legacy Outback Wagon questions

[Wackzingo]

I'm new to the forums and just as new to Subaru. I'm tired of putting tons of money into my American cars and they still don't run :/ I've never purchased a car through craigslist or any classifieds as I've always bought my vehicle from friends or dealers.

 

Having said all that, I found a great looking, very clean 1996 Legacy Outback wagon on Craigslist. The guys says it's a 2.2, 165k miles, had head gaskets, water pump, and timing belt replaced about a week before posting it and has receipts for all the work. So my questions are:

 

1. Would you consider 165k low/mid/high mileage?

 

2. Why would someone put all the money into a car just to sell it? Maybe I'm worried about this for no reason.

 

3. Nada Guides puts clean retail on this car at $3,500 and this guy is asking about $4000. Is that high? Low?

 

4. Would you have a car this cheap looked at by a shop? Do you just take these for quick test drive and see if everything seems good?

 

Thanks in advance for any info.

[mattocs]

Auto or manual?

 

If its an auto and has the 2.2l, then the original engine was probably replaced with the 2.2l when the head gaskets failed.

 

160k is nothing on a 2.2l. I'm not sure of your location, but if cars where you live are prone to rusting then the car will probably rust out before the engine goes.

 

About the repairs, he is probably a car flipper, if it did have the 2.2l swap. They probably bought the car for $800 or so with a blown engine, a 2.2l engine for a few hundred, and a timing belt kit for a few hundred. So for a $1500 investment they could make some decent money on a days work.

Edited May 21, 2012 by mattocs

[1997reduxe]

But then if they replaced the engine, why would they also have done the head gaskets on the new one? Routine maint on a used 2.2? Naaahhh.

 

I'd want to see the receipts where they got the engine from, to know its history a little, and/or get the vin number of the engine that's in the car to see if it was original matching it against car title or wherever that info's printed.

 

I would definitely have it looked at. You don't say where you live but here in Houston there's a service where they'll check it completely over for 100 if you drive it there. To me that seems like a pretty high amount for that many miles, but tht would be right in Colorado. I saw a '92 just recently (in El Paso) with 190K on it for 750.

 

The list of parts replaced, too, it's good they did the timing belt and wp but (I just had mine done and went through the whole parts list to get together, where to buy the seals, other parts, etc) there's a whole litany of different choices you'll find here on USMB about preferences of who like to buy which thermostat (look at sticky at top of page) where to buy crank seal, cam seals, oil pump o-ring, pulleys, hyd. tensioner. You can find kits with all these parts on ebay, which I used last t-belt job, but this time I went more with piecing it together, seals from Subaru, kit from Contitech including Aisin wp.

 

I'd want to know who did the t-belt job and what did they replace, etc?

If the pulleys have never been replaced, then you're looking at a potential disaster when one falls apart in there.

So you're gonna have to get the whole job done again anyways.

Edited May 21, 2012 by 1997reduxe

[dm88]

Hi I buy and sell subarus here in Utah.

Here's what I recommend.

Look at the receipts and call and verify that they were done.

Park it somewhere you can get under it and check for leaks, that's what most shops do. When they do a pre purchase inspection anyway except they charge u way to much for that. The mileage is pretty low for subie especially of you have service records with it. To give you an idea I just sold a 97 with service records and everything and 155k for 3600 and a 96 with 147k with no service records for 3000. So it all the work checks out its worth it to pay a little extra to have the peace of mind that you won't have to do any timing belt or head gaskets in a while. Also if you can get the parts list they used try and see what brand head gasket they used. If they got it from a local parts store you usually good. Be worried if it some eBay brand or evergreen those usually tend to go after about 15k.

[ivans imports]

oil preshure test min 10 psi at idle hot comprestion test and hows it go into gear cold stuff like that the older subies are deafanatly more reliable 96 was a good year as long as 2.2

[Rooster2]

Everyone who has responded to your post has given you great advise!!

 

I am bothered that head gaskets were replaced in what seems to be preventive maintenance to the 2.2 motor. That is just not really done in the real world. Head gaskets are replaced when old head gaskets go bad. So, I would really question the sales pitch given to you on this issue. 2.2 motors don't often blow head gaskets, (though I had one blow), and if so, it makes one wonder how often, and to what degree, the engine was driven while over heating. It is the over heating that leads to a shorten life expectancy of any motor.

 

Just my 2 cents worth of caution.

[mikec03]

Good advise from everyone. One point of disagreement. When replacing the 2.5 with the 2.2, it is just good common sense to put new head gaskets in the 2.2 while it's on the floor. I had one 2.2, that started leaking combustion gas into the coolant at 216K.

 

So the changing of the HG may be a sign that the seller is smart and conscientious.

[Fairtax4me]

I had to do head gaskets on a 2.2 with 178k on it. Bad HGs on a 2.2 are not as numerous as the 2.5, but still entirely possible.

Very common for a seller to do head gaskets even on a swapped engine just as regular PM. It's not difficult or costly, and will almost guarantee another 150k miles of service from a 2.2 engine with nothing more than a timing belt change or two.

 

Where are you located? I see clean repaired Outbacks on my area Craigslist for $3500 - $4000 on a regular basis. Year and mileage don't seem to matter that much as long as the car isn't a rust bucket.

[Wackzingo]

Thanks for all the info. It's definitely given me some things to look at.

 

I'm from the Seattle area and here's the craigslist ad for the car.

 

http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/cto/3015940269.html

 

EDIT: hmmm....maybe mattocs is right about him flipping cars. I can't help but think this ad looks very similar to the one above.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/cto/3015752794.html

Edited May 21, 2012 by Wackzingo

[mattocs]

There is nothing wrong with flipping cars. But I'd offer a lot less than asking price and go from there. Get receipts for work done. If they don't have them, then use that against them.

 

Good luck!

[kona]

"it gets 32-35mpg on hwy" - I doubt that. Are you sure it is actually the EJ22 engine? If so, it would be stamped into the aluminum engine block, clearly visible. If it is an EJ22, it is not original to the car.

 

For the 1996 outback, only 5-speed manual transmission models left the factory with the 2.2 liter "EJ22". 1996 outbacks with automatic transmissions (and all 1997-1999 outbacks) had the 2.5 liter dual overhead cam "2.5D" engine, which is prone to internal head gasket failure, un-announced overheating, and subsequent failure. I would steer clear of the 2.5D engine, no matter how much work it had recently received, unless they were giving the car away. If you're still not convinced, make sure the receipts for work show the same VIN as the actual car you're buying. Those two ads are eerily similar.

 

Less than $3k, consider a first or second generation legacy with the EJ22. 'General Disorder' has said many times here that the pre 1994 first gen legacy offers the most bang for the buck.

 

Approaching the $4k mark, you might, possibly, get close to the second generation outback (2000-2004). It has the 2.5 liter single overhead cam "2.51" engine, which is also prone to head gasket leakage problems, but with a watchful eye, catastrophe is avoidable. The EJ25s have been discussed ad nauseam on this forum, run a search and you'll see.

 

IMHO, the second gen outbacks (same platform as the third gen legacy's) are substantially nicer in terms of appointments and cargo space. I recently picked up a 2001 outback wagon with 122k miles for less than $5k. Granted, the A/C needed replacement, but the previous owners drove the vehicle for almost ten years. They had receipts for religious oil changes and for extensive maintenence from a reputable shop. Work in the last 10k miles included head & valve cover gaskets, timing kit, clutch kit, new axles, brakes, tires, etc. For my buck, this ownership history was clutch on a 10+ year old car.

 

Hope this helps; good luck.

Edited May 22, 2012 by kona

[Rooster2]

Thanks for all the info. It's definitely given me some things to look at.

 

I'm from the Seattle area and here's the craigslist ad for the car.

 

http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/cto/3015940269.html

 

EDIT: hmmm....maybe mattocs is right about him flipping cars. I can't help but think this ad looks very similar to the one above.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/cto/3015752794.html

 

I have sold several cars, and have listed them on Craig's list. I have written my own ads, and after a while, I have used the same, or close verbiage in write-ups. With that experience........

 

The CL listing for the 96 OBW strikes me as a "slick" ad with verbiage that has been refined, honed, and made smooth over a lengthy number of postings on a lot of cars. Pretty sure this is the work, as others think, of someone who is flipping cars. That is not bad unto itself, but just be aware that behind that slick ad, is prolly a slick used car salesman.

[1997reduxe]

all i was saying about the head gaskets needing to be replaced, was that struck me immediately as odd, because if you're going to go out and buy a replacement engine, how much percentage will it need those gaskets, probably not much, so it suggests a whole other range of problems that could have happened. it's being presented as a plus, when i'd much rather knowing the 2.2s, have it not ever been mentioned. just that they put a replacement engine in and "listen to that!" (sound of hardly any sound being heard...)

Oh, and here in Houston we have this place now that sells used engines right from Japan. They offer the 2.2 and 2.0? Would anyone know where/what the 2.0's might come from? I thought maybe for that high of gas mileage maybe they bought one of these factory resold models with lesser displacement...

Edited May 22, 2012 by 1997reduxe

[Rooster2]

all i was saying about the head gaskets needing to be replaced, was that struck me immediately as odd, because if you're going to go out and buy a replacement engine, how much percentage will it need those gaskets, probably not much, so it suggests a whole other range of problems that could have happened. it's being presented as a plus, when i'd much rather knowing the 2.2s, have it not ever been mentioned. just that they put a replacement engine in and "listen to that!" (sound of hardly any sound being heard...)

Oh, and here in Houston we have this place now that sells used engines right from Japan. They offer the 2.2 and 2.0? Would anyone know where/what the 2.0's might come from? I thought maybe for that high of gas mileage maybe they bought one of these factory resold models with lesser displacement...

 

The 2.0 motor is what is used in Japan. Going larger then 2.0, puts the car into a higher tax bracket. It is most likely a 2.2 motor that has a shorter stroke, or smaller piston bore to become a 2.0 motor.

[Wackzingo]

...1996 outbacks with automatic transmissions (and all 1997-1999 outbacks) had the 2.5 liter dual overhead cam "2.5D" engine, which is prone to internal head gasket failure, un-announced overheating, and subsequent failure.

 

So is this just for the Outbacks? I found 1998 automatic with only 123k miles looks clean except for a few minor dents in the driver side fender. I emailed the guy and he said it has a 2.2 not the 2.5 engine.

[Fairtax4me]

97 and later Legacy Outback (have to make that distinction, Impreza has an Outback trim as well, which is an entirely different car) always had the 2.5.

Because it's a wagon, does not mean it's an Outback. There were several wagon trim levels for the Legacy; Base, L, LS, LSi, GT, and Outback. A Legacy L, LS, or Base model, would have the 2.2. A GT or LSi would have the 2.5. Outback would have the 2.5. (MY 96 was the only exception to this where the Outback w/MT came with a 2.2.)

However, by this point in time, enough of those 2.5s have put rods through themselves, and people quite often replace them with the more reliable 2.2. From the factory, the 98 Outback had a 2.5, but if the seller says it has a 2.2, it's either a swap OR it's not an Outback.

[mikaleda]

my step dad has the same car 2.2l auto it has 220k on it and it runs great. 4000 seems like a bit much for the car but that had to be a pricey fix so that is probably why he is asking so much.

[ivans imports]

i stand behind every car i sell no matter what if its a good car then they should back it up and actualy like the car if the owner dosent like the car why should you sounds like a allright deal bitt high priced i sold a 2000 forester with new engine for 4000 thiss week with 6 month waranty on it give you a idea the moter is worth 3000$ the car is 1000$