berto Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Just replaced both timing belts on my 1990 1.8L Loyale after breaking drivers side at 30 mph. After a few attempts, all belts installed, I got it retimed so it starts and runs but sounds really rough, like its not hitting all cylinders. During the last attempt at install, the oil pump sprocket came off its shaft (no bolt found, like it was never there!). I re-installed sprocket with a new bolt and washer, got it all put back together and its runs really rough. I ran some seafoam through the PCV line, burned off the smoke, still really rough. Driver side timing belt look a little loose. Could this cause the rough running? Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djellum Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 loose timing belt would definately affect how it runs. id check into that first. it could also have been adjusted to run when the timing was a few degrees different. I dont know if you pulled out he dist or not, but sometimes just going throught the whole process start to finish and redoing the dist time, tuning the carb, etc, will at least get you to a better starting point. I would definately make sure the belt is in spec first though. I'm assuming its injected, so resetting the computer might help if you cant find a mechanical problem. it might have been compensating for worn timing components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berto Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 OK, I'll go back to the driver side belt and make sure its hunky dory...I'm out here in the middle of the pacific, so getting replacement parts is sketchy. Probably need to replace the pulleys, etc...but that could be a few weeks before parts come from mainland...any way to get that belt tighter with out replacing tensioners, etc? I guess the 90 Loyale wagon is fuel injected...(?), how do I reset the computer? Guess I better read up on that part of the manual! Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djellum Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 you could try replaceing or modifying the tensioner spring. it might just be a weak spring on a good pully. I dont know what the proper tension is supposed to be, but springs are much easier to find im sure. It doesnt have to be injected, but most cars in the US after 88 or so were injected. if your not in country, or someone has messed with it then it could be different. I dont know a good way to explain, either it has a carburetor or it has fuel injection. might be hard to tell with a SPFI system if you dont already know the difference. Just see what the timing belt does, the computer thing isnt a real likely issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Did you use the 3 hash marks on the flywheel and did you rotate the engine 360 degrees after installing the first belt and before installing the second? This model has FI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The FNG Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 If you have a decent Internet connection, go to YouTube and watch the video series by miles fox called "the art of Subaru maintenance" and it is one of the later videos ( #08). It is exactly how it should be done. However, I do not believe that the engine will even run with one side 180* out. My guess is that you are a tooth or two off on one of your cam sprockets. One tooth will make enough difference that it will run like crap. I'm also nearly 100% sure you have SPFI, so if you have a timing light you can easily check timing. It should be 20* BTDC iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berto Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 Thanks All for responses. As for timing intall, yep, I followed as best I could the info from this forum, aligned to three timing marks driverside, then rotate 360 for passenger, then adjust distrib to 20d BTDC. Next step is to double check alignment on belts, and check tensioner springs. Also, after looking at the engine again, of course its SPFI. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Just replaced both timing belts on my 1990 1.8L Loyale after breaking drivers side at 30 mph. After a few attempts, all belts installed, I got it retimed so it starts and runs but sounds really rough, like its not hitting all cylinders. During the last attempt at install, the oil pump sprocket came off its shaft (no bolt found, like it was never there!). I re-installed sprocket with a new bolt and washer, got it all put back together and its runs really rough. I ran some seafoam through the PCV line, burned off the smoke, still really rough. Driver side timing belt look a little loose. Could this cause the rough running? Any thoughts? Thoughts? You didn't say what kind of oil pressure you had or how the engine sounded. It's possible you had low enough oil pressure to starve the drivers side camshaft, causing it to bind in the cam case, breaking the belt. Hard to say, all the way over here though. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 you wont need to modify or change springs in all probability. you need to set the loose belt up in such a fashion that its tight from the crank, all the way around the cogged idler, and cam sprocket so that all of the slack goes to the tensioner. otherwise youre tightening the tight part and not taking up slack. make sense? hth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berto Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 Well, I know it was low on oil, but there was still oil measuring on the dipstick prior to and after breaking the belt...i've had some clicking in the driver side prior to failure but it still ran smoothly. Didn't notice at the time of failure what the oil pressure gauge was reading (too many lights on the dash and traffice coming up from behind...just coasted to a stop!) If the cam or valves are stuck, how do I diagnose? Tried to get the driver side valve cover off, but one bolt is hard to reach and really stuck, another can be screwed out, but does not fully seat (threaded into the alum.) I noticed a very slow leak of oil forming at the botom of the driver valve cover. ARRGH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berto Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Yo! THANK YOU ALL FOR HELPING GET THIS MACHINE RUNNING AGAIN! All it took was taking the slack out of the driver side timing belt (thought I had it, but NOOOOO...) Now it runs better than I've ever heard it! The miracle of oil changes and tight belts! Thanks again... berto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berto Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Aloha All, Seems I'm not out of the woods completely yet...the engine runs OK for a while at idle, took it out for a drive and it knocks when accelerating....still runs ok but sounds like its rattling under the hood when climbing. After driving for a while, I parked and let it idle, engine sounds ok but then the rpm went up and down like it was struggling, then the check engine light went on...with foot on accelerator, light went off and sounded ok again. Am I just not timed right? Sorry for annoying beginner questions, I'm not being cheap, just trying to figure this out. Any help would be appreciated. (Oh yeah, I don't have a timing light, just lined up the dist after the belts went on...sounded OK at idle, parked.) Mahalo, Berto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djellum Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 still sounds like a possible timing issue. when timing is not set right you can "ping" or spark knock under load like going up a hill. its actually called detonation and its from the fuel igniting too soon. If its actually a deep and loud knocking that could be other things as well. most of the time if your pinging from not using the right gas or something its just a general clatter. you really need a timing light to do the job right. you can probably rent one from an auto parts store, but the procedures for timing really need to be done step by step or its very hard to diagnose. if you have no options for getting a timing light, you can try using higher octane gas, and also try retarding the distributor a little and see if it improves. its not the best method and it won't get you perfect but might help diagnose it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The FNG Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I know I already said it, but your belts are probably 1 tooth off. My Loyale did that not too long ago. It would run great at idle, but kinda crappy on the throttle with a little knock. All it takes is one tooth. In my case I run with the timing belt covers off, but I still couldn't get a good angle to see the passenger side timing belt cam pulley. I ended up dropping the radiator and after that it was clear I was 1 tooth off.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 /\/\ +1 i had the same issue w my loyale, only i waited a couple weeks to do anything about it lol. make sure you have good light (visibility) and re check your timing marks to make sure they get to where they need to be, youre a little off still. youll see it, then facepalm. god i hope you removed and tossed your tb covers already RV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berto Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 OK, I got off my cheap thing, went out and bought a timing light. Now I understand...I was off by a hair on the distributor side, but once the light went on, THE LIGHT WENT ON!!!! Evertything is purring now... Thanks Subruise, and everyone else who "timed" in on the conversation...now I only have to worry about that stipped bolt on the valve cover...maybe next post will cover my tials there. MAHALO EVERYBODY. Berto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 glad youre runnin buddy. time to invest in a 10mm ratcheting wrench for those hard to reach spots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 glad youre runnin buddy. time to invest in a 10mm ratcheting wrench for those hard to reach spots Yea, second that. Berto, some have posted about JB Welding for the valve cover bolt and that may be an option for you. I have enough spares that I just replace them. Odds are, the aluminum cam case is cracked. Seen it many times. I've saw them with multiple cracks in them. Here's hoping for a JB kind of fix. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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