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New (to me) Loyale

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I bought another Loyale to replace the Athens Queen.

 

Light blue 1992 4WD 5 sp wagon. 154,000 km (<100,000 mi). C$1400.

 

The rust is just starting. I think I might throw another $500 into it to get it derusted.

 

If it lasts another 200,000 km/ 10 years it will be a heck of a good deal.

 

The only little niggle with it is one that didn't show up in the test drive:

 

A thump underneath (hard to tell from where) when getting on the gas after braking.

 

Any ideas what to look for?

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I will check those points to look for the thump.

 

Another thing has reared its ugly head: It quit on me in the mall parking lot. No start, no matter how long it cranks.

 

I traced it to a fuel problem. The fuel pump does not cycle. Went home to get tools and schematic and a new relay.

 

I replaced the relay and put it in D-check mode so the pump would cycle. Everything seems to work at that end. Relay clicks and the 12 V on the load side cycles between 12 V and not much.

 

At the back there is a new fuel pump. (Easy to tell, no muck on it yet.)

 

I pull the connector and see only about 0.5 V on the hot side???!!! Cycling with 0 V, of course, as the relay clicks. I put it back together and the pump cycles - a bit.

 

I poke the wires and it starts to cycle properly. I drove it home just fine.

 

So the problem seems to be a flaky wiring harness right at the pump. How much do you want to bet the previous owner paid for a pump they didn't need?

 

Tomorrow I crawl under and strip the wires back to retape them. There must be a moderate resistance leak to ground, so the pump won't run, but the fuse won't blow.

 

I can't have it working like this when I take it home next week. 1400 km up to northern BC in 2 days is no time or place for flaky wiring.

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I always carry spare parts with me, especially if you are far from civilization. Things you may need:

alternator

distributor

timing belts

rotor cap

rotor

spark plugs

distributor wires

water pump

fan belts

radiator hoses

tire repair kit

extra 18 gage wire with bolt eyes and junctions

fuel pump

fusible link black wire

coil

vaccuum pump

small vaccuum hoses

duct tape

enough tools to change timing belts in the boondocks

a lantern

a head lamp

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I always carry spare parts with me, especially if you are far from civilization. Things you may need:

alternator Check!

distributor Check!

timing belts Check!

rotor cap Check!

rotor Check!

spark plugs Check!

distributor wires Check!

water pump Check!

fan belts Check!

radiator hoses Fail! Does duct-tape count?

tire repair kit Fail. Isn't this what a spare tire is for?

extra 18 gage wire with bolt eyes and junctions Check!

fuel pump Fail. Haven't come across one yet.

fusible link black wire Fail.

coil Fail.

vaccuum pump Fail.

small vaccuum hoses Negligible. I can chop up my windshield washer hoses if need be.

duct tape You're not a car guy if you don't have this stuff.

enough tools to change timing belts in the boondocks Check!

a lantern Fail.

a head lamp Fail. If both my headlights go out at once...I deserve it.

 

:horse: hahaha, sorry. Had to.

Also, floor jack and jack stands. :Flame:

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If I have to carry all that stuff, this is NOT a daily driver!

 

I am not really far from civilization. This is a main highway, but one with huge stretches with zero services. 50 - 100 mile stretches between fuel stops, and cell service even more spotty.

 

Another little glitch: the hood release cable has snapped. The old car's is ready to snap (no corrosion, but only about 11 wires left of the original 19).

 

Are new ones available anywhere? Dealer or aftermarket?

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This happened to our loyale about 3 months after we got it. There has been a coat hanger attached to the hood release and tucked under the bumper above and into the front little valance/splash guard....thing.

 

Works like a charm ;)

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If I have to carry all that stuff, this is NOT a daily driver!

 

I am not really far from civilization. This is a main highway, but one with huge stretches with zero services. 50 - 100 mile stretches between fuel stops, and cell service even more spotty.

 

Another little glitch: the hood release cable has snapped. The old car's is ready to snap (no corrosion, but only about 11 wires left of the original 19).

 

Are new ones available anywhere? Dealer or aftermarket?

 

 

My hood release cable snapped on me two months ago. Got a new one at the dealer. Sometimes you have to find the dealer in town who has one in stock. I went to several in Seattle before I got to the one that had it.

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If I have to carry all that stuff, this is NOT a daily driver!

 

I am not really far from civilization. This is a main highway, but one with huge stretches with zero services. 50 - 100 mile stretches between fuel stops, and cell service even more spotty.

 

Another little glitch: the hood release cable has snapped. The old car's is ready to snap (no corrosion, but only about 11 wires left of the original 19).

 

Are new ones available anywhere? Dealer or aftermarket?

 

Do you have insurance that will cover a 100 mile tow @ maybe $5 to $10/mile? Since you mentioned that cell service is spotty, you need the full list.

How long does it take to get a water pump shipped to wherever your car is towed to? Who is going to change it out? Where will you stay until the part arrives? How will you even be able to order the right part since there are 2 stem heights for Loyale water pumps? Do you have all the tools plus coolant to refill the radiator? Will the car be broken into prior to getting a water pump? Do you have anything valuable that you carry with you, but have to leave in the vehicle until you get parts? In general, a scary percentage of the population will steal something out of your car if they are pretty sure that they won't get caught. And those tiny spare tires only work for one flat. I had two flats inside of one hour once. I thank Les Scwab Tires for that since they use chewing gum to patch tires. All of that hassle could be avoided if you just had the spare parts on hand to begin with. You will need the parts sooner or later anyways, so you might as well buy them sooner.

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I am not too worried about most of that stuff. Parts are 2 days away. Towing etc. is a biggy. But really, it is only the funky fuel pump wiring that has me concerned. Now I know the problem, it should not be too big a deal.

 

The real problem I have now is the hood is latched tight, with no cable to pop it. Oops. Big double oops.

 

Any brilliant ways to get to it? Maybe pull the bolts that hold it down through the grill...

Edited by robm

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Got the hood release figured out.

 

For future reference of others in the same strait:

 

1. Make a hook of 1/8" steel about 9" long. The hook should be bent to 90 degrees, about 1/2 long.

 

2. Peer through the grill. You will see a metal tab on the driver's side, sticking out from the latch mechanism. It holds the end of the cable sheathe. There is a hole in it, 1/4" or so above the bottom. That is the datum point for using the hook.

 

3. Stick your hand and arm, with the hook, up under the bumper between the bumper and the rad. If you have AC, a skinny arm is an advantage. (I already hate AC. I don't need it, it doesn't work, and it is in the way.)

 

4. Line up the rod with the hole, so the rod is level and at the same height. The hook should be inside the mechanism. With the hook facing forward, pull the rod towards the driver's side of the car until it pops.

 

5. Some latches have a plastic backing plate on them. If it does, you are screwed, as it won't let the hook into the guts of the latch.

 

It was a good thing I had the old car around still, to see how it works and develop this procedure. Also good that this one didn't have the plastic plate.

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Or you can take the front plastic grill off by removing 3 screws, then remove the entire latch assembly with 4 bolts of varying sizes. The whole hood then lifts up with latch assembly still attached. You may have to cut off whats left of the cable, to completely free it up. Before removing the cable from inside the vehicle, tape a pulling wire to it and pull that wire into the vehicle cab so that your new cable tip can then be retaped to the pull wire. The pull wire then, you guessed it, pulls the new cable through all needed holes to come out underneath the hood.

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I tried removing the grill. On the Loyale, it is held by pins on the bottom, which can be popped out by flexing the grill slightly. It is held at the top by by 2 of those strange plastic fasteners that hold the plastic trim bits inside the car, like below the glove box or steering column. They have a plastic screw that expands an insert to wedge it in place, like drywall anchor. These screws must be unscrewed from above, and are not accessible if the hood is shut.

 

It may be possible to drive the screws out with a punch, but to do that would require a very long punch, and don't try it with AC, as there is very little room between the condenser and the bumper to get tools, hands etc. into this area.

 

And the latch is held by 3 each 12mm head bolts and a Phillips screw holding a bit of sheet metal that is part of the cable sheathe anchor. The Phillips screw may or may not come out.

 

Too late to run a pull wire. I hope I can fish it through.

Edited by robm

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It is held at the top by by 2 of those strange plastic fasteners that hold the plastic trim bits inside the car, like below the glove box or steering column. They have a plastic screw that expands an insert to wedge it in place, like drywall anchor. These screws must be unscrewed from above, and are not accessible if the hood is shut.

 

 

 

 

The center portion of those plastic screw/clips can be simply pushed up and out of the clip.

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Very true. I considered it. But I lacked the very long punch/steel rod (1/4" - 3/16" dia.?) necessary to get up inside to do it. As I mentioned, this car has AC, and the condenser hanging out in front of the radiator reduces the working space in there to an near-impossible minimum. Also, I wonder: would the hood right above the screws prevent them from moving far enough to release the grill?

 

The first major mod I do will be to remove all that crap, so I can do timing belts.

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If you can find a replacement grill at the local auto wreckers, with all accessories, you can then just bust out the grill that you have, if all else fails. You may even be able to find a better condition grill than you already have.

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Got the hood release figured out.

 

For future reference of others in the same strait:

 

1. Make a hook of 1/8" steel about 9" long. The hook should be bent to 90 degrees, about 1/2 long.

 

2. Peer through the grill. You will see a metal tab on the driver's side, sticking out from the latch mechanism. It holds the end of the cable sheathe. There is a hole in it, 1/4" or so above the bottom. That is the datum point for using the hook.

 

3. Stick your hand and arm, with the hook, up under the bumper between the bumper and the rad. If you have AC, a skinny arm is an advantage. (I already hate AC. I don't need it, it doesn't work, and it is in the way.)

 

4. Line up the rod with the hole, so the rod is level and at the same height. The hook should be inside the mechanism. With the hook facing forward, pull the rod towards the driver's side of the car until it pops.

 

5. Some latches have a plastic backing plate on them. If it does, you are screwed, as it won't let the hook into the guts of the latch.

 

It was a good thing I had the old car around still, to see how it works and develop this procedure. Also good that this one didn't have the plastic plate.

 

Oh crap. You are waaaay better than me. When mine snapped I wasn't too patient. Knowing the grill rested on two pegs, I lifted it up and bent back and forth and it came off. :eek:

 

I got at the latch alright. Luckily it "kinda " fits back in and the crack is along the top - hardly noticeable. :-p

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Well, I made it home in one piece, without too much drama. 1400 km in 2 days.

 

The fuel pump connector crapped out again, in Cache Creek (where the Athens Queen got her name). Same nonsense, 10 minutes fiddling with the connector in D-check mode until the pump finally started to run. I wound up covered in sticky undercoat, and the soap in the restaurant and gas station does not cut through it.

 

I think there is a temperature effect going on here. Every time it stops working is when it has been parked in a hot parking lot for a few minutes. I can see no other correlation.

 

I will get some bullet connectors this weekend, and cut out the old connector, put in the new ones.

 

Other than the fuel pump in Cache Creek, it ran well. 11.1 km/l (26 mpg) around town, as much as 13 km/l (30.6 mpg) on the highway. Not too bad.

 

Now to fix the fuel pump connector, replace all fluids, and look into getting it derusted.

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Years later.  I finally did figure out the fuel pump problem.  It was the relay.  I drove it for a while with a hot wire direct from the battery in the car, ready to connect to the fuel pump wiring.  Finally, I changed out the relay, and promptly totalled the car in a collision.  The relays under the dash get flaky when they get old.  They work sometimes, then crap out when they get warm, so there was  correllation between temperature and the failure.

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wow, bad accident? Got any pictures? Seems you are okay, so I would like to gawk. Our cars seem to fold pretty good when hit.

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