86BRATMAN Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 It's common practice in the automotive world, the last subaru with an actual oil pan gasket would have been an ea82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darsdoug Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 Almost became another victim of the Haynes manual "132 in-lbs." instruction they give for step 6. Why didn't they just say 11 ft. lbs. !!! on bolts 3 thru 6 ??? So what happens to new perma torque head gaskets if 3 thru 6 receives 132 ft. lbs. of torque? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 The bolts would prbably break, or strip the threads out of the block. The final 90 degree torque step reaches approximately 90 ft lbs. The gasket would certainly crush, it would probably warp the head if the bolts don't break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darsdoug Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 Will it be o.k. to go with the used headbolts? I think they are stretch bolts, but they appear to be in good condition. The ones I removed from the 94 engine look almost new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darsdoug Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 It's common practice in the automotive world, the last subaru with an actual oil pan gasket would have been an ea82 I'm learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darsdoug Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 O.K...I made my first mistake by using a cheap Harbor Freight torque wrench. I was doing fairly well until I reached step 6 when I carelessly and briefly glanced at the evil Haynes manual and commenced to torque bolts 3 thru 6 with 132 foot pounds of torque! It was definitly a dumb move and I'd really like to blame it on heat exhaustion after working in the sun all day, but now 24 hrs later I've come to terms with it and I have definitly learned from it. A fiasco such as this will stick with me due to the monetary impact alone. Nevertheless, once I realized that something just wasn't right I quickly backed the headbolts out to 5 ft.lbs. and started over. So now I shall dedicate the remainder of this thread as a sort of "experiment" just to show what happens when you don't follow procedure. I had viewed the briansmobile U-tube video on the 8 step head bolt torque sequence a couple times but apparently I didn't have it memorized. Oh well. Live and learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old sub freak Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Boy you better learn !! we don't alow any mistakes around here HaHa especially in my spelling....Live and learn,That is the trick ,hey even at our age there is still lots to learn.I can't believe how many experiments folks have tried on there subarus. Frankin motors,Drilling headgaskets ??,But you won't know till you try.....Right? good job old man,lookin good !!! C ya, OSF...flux copasitor.bmp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Head bolts can be re-used, although I'm not sure how much I would trust them after being over-torqued like that. Are you going to put new head gaskets on it or are you going to take a gamble and see if/how long the over torqued gaskets last? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darsdoug Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) Considering how much torque/pressure I applied to all four corners of that one cylinder head (for about five minutes or so) I honestly believe I should take it off and check for distortion/flatness of the head and purchase another gasket. Although I'm tempted to just go with it and hope for the best. I know I put a generous amount of copper spray on the gaskets beforehand. If only I could remember whether it was the left or the right side of the engine? Yup. I might just go with it. I wonder what kind of odds Las Vegas will give it? Edited July 4, 2013 by darsdoug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 . I know I put a generous amount of copper spray on the gaskets beforehand. Because of nothing else but this, those gaskets are doomed to failure. Sealers are absolutely unacceptable on Subaru head gaskets. They are guaranteed to fail if you put RTV silicone sealer on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darsdoug Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 This is what I used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 That is RTV silicone. Just in a convenient spray can. Some engines that type of sealer is helpful. On Subarus it is not helpful, and it causes failure of the head gasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darsdoug Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share Posted July 5, 2013 So that tech on U-tube didn't know that? Good information sure is hard to find these days! I'm certainly glad people like you are here on Ultimate Subaru Message Board. "Thanks again". I lifted out the old short-block today because the engine lift hasn't arrived yet. I sure won't consider putting the long-block in without the help of a lift. I wonder how much professionally rebuilt 1999 EJ22 long-blocks are going for these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darsdoug Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 (edited) Here's a question for you. I got it in (finally) and as you can see I placed masking tape over the openings to keep nuts and bolts and stuff out. I put a 22mm socket and ratchet on the front crankshaft bolt and turned it over (clockwise of course) several times and I'm observing the masking tape puffing upward on the various intake ports (convexing) and then sucking downward (concave) as the pistons travel up and down in their perspective bores. Is the convexing normal (upward pressure of air) or is the engine out of time? Edited July 7, 2013 by darsdoug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 which marks did you use to time the engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darsdoug Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 which marks did you use to time the engine? There's a pic of it back on #34. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 it's a little difficult to tell 100% but it looks like the triangle on the outer side of the timing cog is pointed at 3 o'clock, if it is then cyl 1 is not at tdc like it should be. I noticed that problem with my Haynes manual timing instructions when I was rotating a short block yesterday after putting pistons in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darsdoug Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 So where else can the triangle point? Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe my timing is dead on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 it's the triangle on the timing gear that needs to point at the notch on the oil pump from what I saw yesterday, it's been a while since I've actually timed an ej but it's easy to be confused by some of the manuals on the market Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darsdoug Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 it's the triangle on the timing gear that needs to point at the notch on the oil pump from what I saw yesterday, it's been a while since I've actually timed an ej but it's easy to be confused by some of the manuals on the market I'm going by the vids on Utube showing timing belt replacement on the EJ22. I HAVE discovered that the bellhousing bolt pattern on a 99 Legacy automatic doesn't match up with a 94 Impreza block. I can only get two bolts, one @ 10 o'clock and one @ 2 o'clock on the top, and the two very bottom ones. Oh well. I guess we'll see what happens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 that's a common thing considering the 99 is a phase 2 engine. I've looked at the videos on YouTube, according to them you do have it correctly timed. I may have caused a false alarm, I do know though that at that mark on the crank the engine isn't at tdc, maybe they aren't timed that way on purpose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 continued research, I'm wrong carry on. You are good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Timing is not set at TDC because the cams are loaded and it is very difficult to keep them in proper position. Timing is done with the crank 90 degrees off TDC and the cams 45 degrees off. This sets the cams in a position which they will stay without needing a special tool to hold them. It also sets the pistons at half stroke, which helps avoid piston to valve interference. The pushing up of the tape on the intake ports is normal due to the timing of the closing of the intake valves. The valves are still slightly open as the piston begins to move up on the compression stroke. When the engine is running this overlap improves efficiency by allowing more time for air to enter the cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darsdoug Posted July 8, 2013 Author Share Posted July 8, 2013 Timing is not set at TDC because the cams are loaded and it is very difficult to keep them in proper position. Timing is done with the crank 90 degrees off TDC and the cams 45 degrees off. This sets the cams in a position which they will stay without needing a special tool to hold them. It also sets the pistons at half stroke, which helps avoid piston to valve interference. The pushing up of the tape on the intake ports is normal due to the timing of the closing of the intake valves. The valves are still slightly open as the piston begins to move up on the compression stroke. When the engine is running this overlap improves efficiency by allowing more time for air to enter the cylinder. Is that where MAP comes into play? Manifold Absolute Pressure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darsdoug Posted July 8, 2013 Author Share Posted July 8, 2013 continued research, I'm wrong carry on. You are good to go. I got it all buttoned up last night and put a charged battery in it. Then the moment of truth came. "I turned the key and it started right up". The idle was abnormally low though because I forgot to plug in the temp sensor when I put the intake manfold on. And a couple lifters are clicking because I'd backed them off a little when I first got the car (believing they were too tight) but I think I can fix that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.