heartless Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 Thank you Fairtax - that was very helpful. Depending on the weather the next few days (& homework loads), I will try to get a reading, and maybe try swapping in the coil from the 95 if the reading is low... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 I've heard the later coils have a different plug, but the wires are in the same order (maybe even the same color?) so the plugs can be swapped. Coils are easy enough to swap, but if the one that's on it doesn't test out of range I don't think swapping another onto it will do any good. You could compare resistance of both coils (front and rear halves of both the current and spare). Problem with the coil idea is that there are two coils on each pack, so its hard for both coils to go bad at the same time. Usually you still get fire from one side if the other side goes kaput. Check and compare resistance of the coils. Make sure you're getting 12v at the center pin. Igniters almost never go bad, but if it were bad you'd just get no spark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 ok, sounds like a plan. First thing is to make sure we have 12 v getting to the coil pak...then check resistance values... Keep in mind tho, that this car had a fire under the hood - apparently a fairly major one - lots of little anomolies that "shouldn't" be... starter motor that I took in for a rebuild was completely "cooked" internally - yeah, i know, probably the original & the car does have over 364K on the clock, but even the shop owner was surprised by what they found and he has been rebuilding this stuff for more than 30 years. I know now why we got the darn thing so cheap...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Ohhhh, this is the one that caught fire...! Then you may have a LOT of checking to do! Any burn marks on the coil from the fire? Could have water damage if they put out the fire with a hose and soaked the coil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Ohhhh, this is the one that caught fire...! Then you may have a LOT of checking to do! Any burn marks on the coil from the fire? Could have water damage if they put out the fire with a hose and soaked the coil. Makes me wonder what other wiring damage, and component damage is still lurking under the hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 (edited) Makes me wonder what other wiring damage, and component damage is still lurking under the hood. me too, Rooster, me too...This was "supposed" to be a relatively simple engine swap that has turned into a bit of a nightmare when I started discovering all the incidental damage from the fire - that was never mentioned, and was mostly hidden by a partially pulled/dismantled motor... I am now determined to make this sucker run - come hell or highwater! LOL might take some brain picking, and a whole lot of trying to track down this or that on my end, but I WILL do this - eventually! Yeah, it will be a challenge - but - challenge accepted! Fairtax - the coil is from the donor car, so no chance of that having been doused/flooded with water or extinguisher chemicals. I am pretty sure an extinguisher was used tho. the engine wiring harness was sourced from another member here, because the original 2.5 harness was a mess - melted connectors, damaged wiring,etc; and the donor motor was a 1990 model - different harness configuration. That was fun to get installed... On the throttle body - this was swapped over from the 2.5 (after a good cleaning) to the 2.2 - the old 2.2 tb only had one vacuum line connection on top (non-EGR), the 2.5 tb (EGR) has 2 - 1 closer to intake manifold, the other towards the airbox side (both between the butterfly & intake) - any thoughts on which should I be using? or should I have a Y or T fitting in line and use both? Edited August 29, 2013 by heartless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I would try to get a new harness from a 95-98 2.5 rather than adapt the older 90 harness to work with the 98 ECU/body wiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I don't think either of those vacuum ports will work for what you probably need them for. There should be a port on the number 3 intake runner that you can use for the FPR, and run a T to the MAP sensor. If you need another port to connect the evap solenoid you could use one of the ports on top of the TB, but I would probably just T that in with the FPR and MAP as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted August 29, 2013 Author Share Posted August 29, 2013 (edited) I would try to get a new harness from a 95-98 2.5 rather than adapt the older 90 harness to work with the 98 ECU/body wiring. I did source an appropriate year engine harness - I might be crazy, but not that crazy! LOL but getting the new harness installed, and sorting out which connectors went where (with nothing labeled) was interesting - had to swap out the cam and crank sensors as well since they have a different style connector in the later years. I don't think either of those vacuum ports will work for what you probably need them for. There should be a port on the number 3 intake runner that you can use for the FPR, and run a T to the MAP sensor. If you need another port to connect the evap solenoid you could use one of the ports on top of the TB, but I would probably just T that in with the FPR and MAP as well. ok...if I am reading this right - neither of the vacuum ports on the 2.5 tb will be compatible with what was on the 2.2 tb...ugh! so do I just cap off those two ports? the 2.2 tb vacuum port goes to the CPC solenoid, not FPR - well, maybe in a round about way it does...but either way - tapping into that port on the #3 runner would work for my purposes? a simple brass fitting of the appropriate size with a hose barb will work for tapping in, right? vacuum to the MAP? dont see any place for a vacuum line on/near the air intake...perhaps MAF, not MAP? Coil ohms testing reveals that the coil may indeed be bad - the donor car sat for several years... Main coil - meter set at 20K: 1-2 = 13.30 3-4 = 13.53 connector - meter set at 2K (was the only way I coudl get a reading): 1-2 = 0.001 2-3 = 0.001 No where near spec... So, gonna try swapping in the coil from the 95 (known running car) that isnt going anywhere right now & see what happens with that. Battery is still strong at 12.14v, but I may stick the trickle charger on it, just because.... Edited August 29, 2013 by heartless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 12.1 is low. Should be at least 12.4, and even that is only considered about 75% charged. However, plenty of cars start and run every day with battery voltages under 12v, so that shouldn't cause the no-start issue. I would definitely put it on a charger though since that low voltage will eventually drag down the overall potential of the battery. Which pins in the connector did you check? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 checked between pins 1 & 2, and then between 2 & 3 per the service manual(s) weather has been hot & humid here for the last couple of weeks, and trying to start this car has dragged the voltage down on the battery - will get the trickle charger on it tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted September 4, 2013 Author Share Posted September 4, 2013 ok, back to this one momentarily... Fuel pump has been swapped. Coil has been swapped for a known good one Battery has been charged Still no start. Started pulling fuel lines to make sure it was getting fuel (pump tested good before install) not getting fuel up to the engine - even behind the fuel filter there is no flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 Anyone have any thoughts on what could possibly be killing the fuel pump on this thing? the replacement pump unit was tested before installing and it did work. after installing, apparently it only worked very briefly (there was some fuel in the lines when I pulled them off, but not as much as there should have been) Beginning to think we may be further ahead to strip this sucker for parts and call it a day...I start a new job on monday, so wont have as much time to mess with it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Tested working does not mean its currently getting power. Double check that you have good power and ground at the pump. If that checks out pull the pump and re-test it. Is the gas in the tank really old? Does it still smell like gas? Check to see if it burns. Water is heavier than gas so any water in the tank sinks to the bottom. Possibly the pump is just pumping water and burned out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 Gas in the tank (between 1/4 & 1/2 full) should only be a few months old (have no idea on grade, ethanol mix, or where it came from tho) - car was being driven until engine failure - around late May, early June. And yeah, still smells like gas - nice and strong, LOL Will do on the retesting of power & ground at the pump.... something that came up in another conversation recently - cam and/or crank sensors not sending proper signals to the ECU possibly causing the no start situation? anyone have any testing procedures/specs for those? Both sensors came off the trashed 2.5 (dont forget about the fire here) because of the connector differences in the engine harness swap - the original 2.2 sensors wouldnt work with the newer harness... Would really like to get this running, if at all possible, before winter hits...and that is coming fast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Either of those could cause a no-start, but would not affect operation of the fuel pump. Best way to test those is with an O-scope to see if the signal waveform is correct, and by probing both sensors at the same time you can check to see if they are in sync. But most people dont have access to a multi-channel digital scope. (The only reason they would be out of sync is the cam and crank are out of time) So... you can check their resistance (spec should be in the FSM) to see if the coils inside are shorted. But, if the sensors have the wrong resistance, the ECU will probably set a code for that sensor. You can also check with a voltmeter, the AC voltage output to see if the sensors are producing a signal at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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