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Lift block height


Uberoo
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So I'm thinking about shortening the front end,if I can think of a way to shorten the front and still have all the body lines to line up, I'll do it.I need to go get a fender and maybe a hood to experiment on first though.While I am mulling over the front, I started the long process of piecing together the rear of the brat.Here is a construction pic of a patch panel and some of the gap filling that I need to do to make it as structually sound as it was before i hacked everything up.I'll make patch panels for the larger gaps..

DSC00518_zpsqziernie.jpg~original

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after a full day of cutting,forming,and welding patch panels, I got 1/2 the fender done.Yes, I know my welds suck.My mig machine doesn't really make a clear arc at the settings for 20-22 gauge so I set it for the 18 gauge steel I was using as patch panels and ending up almost spot welding the whole thing because otherwise I would burn through.Or there was still undercoat contaminating the weld, or it was upside down...On well, as soon as I get a new flap wheel the welds are getting knocked down again.

DSC00520_zpsia7ddwju.jpg~original

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  • 1 month later...

Defeating the crumple zones of the factory brat front end is a bit "fun".Newer cars are designed so that the entire front end balls inward to progressively absorb the energy from a collision.After looking at the brat it was designed so the lower "framerail" from the firewall forward would crumple so the engine would go under the passenger compartment (good).Its a shame I have to defeat it to make the front section strong enough to survive stuffing the front end into the dirt or a boulder while off road.All this discovery came about after cutting the lower front frame rails to just before the rearward most cross member bolt hole so I can move the engine rearward 7".I would move it back further, but that would need major firewall surgery and the engine would try to occupy the same space as the heater-no bueno.

 

Heres what is left of the lower "frame rails" 

DSC00522_zpsnx9so1ih.jpg~original

 

What the "structure" inside looks like.

DSC00525_zpsqalljoxc.jpg~original

 

Finally a view from the top.

DSC00526_zps6y3emv5q.jpg~original

 

It looks like in order to make the front end strong enough I will have to remove that "framerail" section from just under the firewall,and rebuild the structure with tube and plate the firewall.

Unless anyone has any other ideas.

 

 

 

 

*progress has been slowed to more or less a halt due to the wonder combination of no free time and no income.

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  • 1 month later...

So Ive been busy with school and other various life BS so I just have't had much time to even look at it let alone work on it.Whatever free time I had to used it on other less productive activities like sleeping or playing video games because I was kinda in a slump.I need money to buy tube for the underbody and front end, but with no money to do those things I just kinda put it off.Then my sister asked me if I would house sit their house and pets while she was away for her honeymoon at the tune of $100 a day,so of course I said yes.It will be nice to have some money coming in as I get a ton of free time.So anyway, today I was supposed to study for my final on monday, but things got in the way,at 8PM I said screw it and finished most of the RR fender on the brat.I also stuffed a tire on to help me visualize shock placement.

 

DSC00527_zpsbxmlujhr.jpg~original

 

That tire is a "31x10.5x15" but its wore out so it only measures about 29",that is about an inch lower than ride height.

 

I might need some fender flares. lol.

 

DSC00528_zpsw4abn2bb.jpg~original

 

Here is a shot of the mostly completed fender,I still have a little patch panel to make up at the top of the wheelwheel, and make the piece that the lights will mount into.

 

DSC00529_zpsictbdu0y.jpg~original

 

a shot showing just how far the tire sticks out from the body work...

DSC00530_zps39ypugfj.jpg~original

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So yesterday my mom asked me what I wanted for christmas, I'm pretty well satisfied with what I have right now,if anything I need steel to finish my brat.So I told her I really could use a couple dollars worth of steel to finish my projects.Long story short my christmas gift was a stick of 1.5x095,2 sticks of 1.5x083, and a 2'x3' section of 18 gauge steel.So with new steel at hand I went right to work making progress* on the brat.*Progress that looks suspiciously like destruction.

 

So I cut out this section of the floor to make room for some TOOB that will form the basis of a subframe that connects the front and rear together, and gives me a sturdy place to mount the Tcase and its assorted hardware to.

DSC00531_zpstcaudmha.jpg~original

 

Heres what it looks like from inside the car.

DSC00532_zpshemwlouk.jpg~original

 

the tube will pass under the seat mount and sit on top of the floor in that low hanging section behind the seats then it will punch through the back wall to where it can connect to the rear blocks.

 

 

I wanted to cut out more of the framerail on that side to make room for tOOb but I'm kinda stumped on how to make the crossmember bolt holes in the tube.Before I cut away all of the frame rail I should make something that locates those bolt holes in each frame rail.

DSC00533_zpsi8x1ikhc.jpg~original

 

I'm not sure if having the crossmember mounts on a gusseted tab off the tube or having the bolts pass through a sleeve in the middle of the tube would be better.

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The more I think about it, I'm not even sure why the cross member needs to be removable.I'm building a tubular "frame", and I'm building a tubular crossmember, why would the cross member have to be removable? On my dodge dakota there isn't a removable engine cross member.The frame itself has a engine cradle built right in that also mounts the suspension and steering rack.Exactly as my tubular cross member would do.

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I am trying to locate the suspension mounting points before I remove the rest of the framerail in front of the firewall, and I'm not having much luck,Right now I have the crossmember bolted to the car through the original lift/adapter blocks I made to adapt the EA81 crossmember to the EA71 body.Then I have a little "jig" I made to locate the suspension pivot points 1" down and 2 13/16" inward.Then I bolted some pieces of metal to the locating jig from the suspension.I thought I would just run a piece of metal from those plates to something solid on the car like the front bumper and the suspension pivot points would be located without the crossmember being there.My problem is the metal I tack to those suspension plates sags under its own weight as soon as I unbolt it from the jig leaving 1/4-1/2" of movement.So I am wondering how I can positively locate a point in space on the car when there is nothing to reference off

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  • 5 weeks later...

I figured out how to keep the suspension geometry.I'll let you all know once I actually get something done.College resumes next week so I will work on the brat hopefully next weekend. Snow is calling my name so I'm going skiing tomorrow.

 

Anyone in the area want to help me out so I can get some real progress done over the weekend?

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not to add to much pressure but its been 2 years lets see this rig on the trail soon! , as far as a

removable crossmember or other removable parts a cut off saw and a welder makes all the parts removable and replaceable, just get this thing back in one piece , you will make a few mistakes but that can be changed later too, what do you want a project that goes on and on ? or a machine you can take out and wheel with your buddies? Your choice, no more excuses we all want results .

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  • 2 weeks later...

One hell of a build man. Same time frame as mine too, lol. (3 years and I'm finally throwing on a 5") Wish I had the confidence to cut into the brat for that type of rust repair... (she needs it too)
 

 

 
I'm not sure if having the crossmember mounts on a gusseted tab off the tube or having the bolts pass through a sleeve in the middle of the tube would be better.

 

I'd say through the tube would be stronger, definitely with the sleeve though. 

 

And as far as removable cross members, if you're going to make it a permanent mount, I'd say make a custom engine Xmember out of some of that tube, would help with weight, and I imagine would keep down the shear load(?) on the mounting bolts of the body. Possibly even just do a motor mount sticking off each side of the frame? May not work because of the flat 4 though...

 

 

And once this gets up and running I'd definitely be interested in seeing how that HDPE holds up... Been looking for a cheaper adapter plate option....

 

 

Also if you need any 1st gen crap that's off the body PM me I'll get it to you for cheap (I've got some sweet 4"-6" ish flared front fenders, just need a small patch, much easier than everything in this so far, pic here)

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yea, we shall all see how the HDPE adapter plate works.After all the times ive put the engine and transmission into its hole, that adapter plate hasn't dented or deformed it any way.However, time will tell as to how the heat affects it.

 

As far as rust repair goes, just cut into it and see what you find, its only metal and can be cut and shaped as many times as it takes.

 

The fenders look cool, but probably won't be of use to me due to the extensive mods in the pipeline.In the foreseeable future, the front suspension is getting moved forwards 3" and alot of the nose is getting shortened.

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So I thought I would tell you all what I've been up to. I realized that there was no way I could get the front suspension to cycle the full 8-12" I have planned for it when the tires were already right against the firewall.So I decided to move the entire front suspension forward 3" as I hinted at above.Before I could even think about cutting and rewelding the body I spent a couple minutes getting the body square to the floor.Then I braced the ever living piss out of the front suspension so nothing would move on me when I started cutting.

DSC00534_zps0bxwzyo3.jpg~original

 

Then I carefully cut a horizontal line with my cut off wheel at the top of each strut tower so I can put the suspension back where it needs to go.Then I busted out the out the sawzall and made the vertical cuts behind the strut towers.Then the front suspension fell on the ground. :)

DSC00535_zpsi0qpgmz7.jpg~original

 

Here is what everything looks like without the front suspension cluttering the way.

DSC00536_zpseniaf8bu.jpg~original

 

Some time with a torch later and it looked like this.

DSC00537_zpsni4qgyxl.jpg~original

 

Some more time with a grinder,and all the sheetmetal was trimmed back to the firewall.

DSC00538_zpsxudcai82.jpg~original

 

Seeing as my torch work had burned up all the glue that bonded the firewall to the car, I set out to fix that with the metal glue gun.

DSC00539_zpsaookudkd.jpg~original

 

Now to fit some 1.5x0.95 tube into the floor to replace the tinfoil that I cut away on that side.Once that is in there I can start on the other side and do everything all over again.Then start on the engine cradle and its associated tube work.

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My 2c, next time you decide to do a project of this magnitude, it would probably be easier and stronger to just start from scratch.  Ideally you would build a full tube frame/cage, but you could just have a basic ladder frame connecting the suspension and drivetrain mounts at the ends and then mount a shell on top so you can make it street legal.  It usually only takes a couple guys a few weeks to build a tube frame.  I think the frame would be stronger and it would probably take you less time overall.  Easy for me to say that now.

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My 2c, next time you decide to do a project of this magnitude, it would probably be easier and stronger to just start from scratch.  Ideally you would build a full tube frame/cage, but you could just have a basic ladder frame connecting the suspension and drivetrain mounts at the ends and then mount a shell on top so you can make it street legal.  It usually only takes a couple guys a few weeks to build a tube frame.  I think the frame would be stronger and it would probably take you less time overall.  Easy for me to say that now.

 

 

But where is the fun in that?No, I hear ya. I just chose to start modifying the body because I wanted it street legal(ish) and I wanted a heater with an enclosed cab.

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  • 4 weeks later...

So Ive been rebuilding my little honda ct90 so I can ride it as soon as most the snow in the hills melts off in a couple of weeks,but I still need more parts, while its down I worked a little on the brat.

 

I ground down all the rough and jagged edges of the remaining structure on the passenger side of the car.Then I welded up all the edges that were exposed when I savagly cut the layers away.No pictars because upside down welding,and because it is hard to show anything with the camera anyway.

 

So I began mocking up where the new tube frame will go.A little cutting here and there,some hammering and bending sheetmetal with pliers, and I got the 55" section of tube to go into its new home.

DSC00540_zpsh97t0ol8.jpg~original

 

you can even see some the burn marks from welding some the sections under the floor/firewall.

 

This is how tight the tube is tucked into the body.

DSC00541_zpstmrrimbq.jpg~original

 

I started to weld the sheetmetal to the tube but I ran out of wire and CO2 isnt too far behind.This is about as far as i got.Note: there will also be extra reinforcements bracing the toob to the car, that piece of tube will never come off the car...

 

DSC00542_zpselhlmojp.jpg~original

 

to teh welding store tomorrow for more metal glue..

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  • 2 weeks later...

I got a bunch of work done today, but nothing pic worthy.I got that tube 80% welded into the car.I welded up everything that was less than 3/8" gap from above and below.Now to make some patch panels to fill up areas that I cut too far back when making the tube fit in the first place.Then after that some sheetmetal sections to reinforce some sections under the car.

 

 

 

Oh lawdy, I would kill to have the car on a rotisserie.It would be SO MUCH EASIER to weld under it.Maybe when I win the lottery I will have a rotisserie, and a car hoist,and a 5 axis cnc mill,and.....

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  • 2 weeks later...

Right, so yesterday I worked on the car for about 2 hours and got some work done.

First off I cut out a rectangular piece of 1/8" plate,then I bent that to fit the firewall.Then welded it in place.That plate will serve as a mounting base for some of the tube firewall forward.

 

DSC00543_zpssinlja2x.jpg~original

 

Then I made some patch panels to rebuild some of the structure of the car.

DSC00544_zpsjep6hzfc.jpg~original

 

Yes I know, my welds suck especially up at the top.That first inch was nothing but boogers,after that I was able to lay down decent beads.I went over the first section again to burn in some of that crap...but atleast no one will see it.

 

I have all of today to work on it.Lets see what I can get done.

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So I got the tube 100% welded in,made some patch panels tieing the tube into the body.After that I started filling in some holes in the body left over from trim pieces.Then I started mocking up the tail light panel as a reward for getting that tube in place.Upside down welding sucks, and when the metal isn't surgically clean its hell.Got everything in there but some sections look like utter dog**** so I will post pics after I have attacked them with a grinder,and re welded spots if necessary.As they look now I really don't want my name attached to them,So I suppose that makes me a grinder and not a welder..

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  • 2 months later...

Has anyone lightened the hubs or any of the suspension pieces?Sort of like this:091001pic1.jpg

I drew up a quick sketch in autocad and it looks like if I did that to the wheel mounting hubs it would lose 1/2 lb per wheel or roughly 2 lbs total.Thats AFTER drilling the hubs for 6 lug.It may not seem like much but it is rotating and unsprung weight.In addition to that there is some material that could be removed from the brake rotors themselves.Not to mention driveshaft flanges...

Edited by Uberoo
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You would definitely be safe milling out the part that goes in the spindle or slotting the wheel pilot.  Most of the weight savings is probably in making the wheel flange star shaped though.  Are you even going to be able to do that after adding six more holes to it?  It will make the flange weaker too, but it would probably still be strong enough.  Also, since wheel bearings and hubs are a wear item, you'd have to do this every time you replaced them.  Same with the brake discs.  I personally don't think it would be worth the time and effort.  I saw something where a guy CNC milled small block chevy block castings and took 30-50 pounds of iron out of them and they were still reliable.  So that kind of thing is feasible, just a question of how much time you want to spend on it.  You could clean 100% of the undercoating off your body and save quite a bit of weight there.

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I would clean the undercoating off but it is a necessary evil because of the offroad nature of the car.Otherwise the poor critter would probably rust out after one or two outings.

 

Wheel bearings are a wear item but they press out,Hubs only fail if the CV axle nut was not tight enough or the bearings go very south.The 6 lug conversion adds 4 studs to each wheel when starting with the original 4x140 bolt pattern.Two of the original studs are pressed out,and their holes are either filled with weld or left alone.In my case they would be filled with weld because a portion of the star pattern would go right through the stud hole that is left behind.

 

Grinding off unused mounting bosses on the engine is doable but it won't save as much weight as milling the block inside and outside.In my case because I haven't ever built an engine from scratch so most of my engines ARE wear items,go to junkyard and get engine,run it till it blows,rinse and repeat.I usually reuse the intake manifold and various other brackets so I can lighten those.

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