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long travel Outbacks or making Subarus faster and more reliable offroad


pontoontodd
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The weekend before Christmas I flew out to San Diego. T picked me up at the airport and we stopped by a speed shop that does a lot of Subarus. They had three of them and all of them were getting or had gotten engine work done.

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Then we went to T's house and had lunch and checked out the red Impreza. It was mostly as advertised until I opened the LR door and saw the giant patch of epoxy/fiberglass that had been added. 

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We drove up to my brother's house.  He had bought B a very nice white Forester. It only had 112k miles on it and was like new inside and out. Even our mom was impressed with how nice it was. It didn't have a hitch so B and I shipped out his hitch and my hitch ball, stabilizer bar, magnetic lights, etc. T had bought a Harbor Freight folding tow bar. My brother and I got the towing all set up. I drilled a few holes in the bottom of the Impreza bumper beam and my brother TIG welded the brackets on to it so we weren't just relying on the spot welds.

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The lights had worked the previous night but one wasn't working as we pulled away from the house. Turned out to just be a bulb so we got one from a parts store and swapped that out. Drove to R's on Saturday. On the way we saw a recliner in the middle of the interstate. In Arizona we hit one stretch of I10 for 10 or 20 miles where the car was wandering all over the lane even when I slowed down. We pulled over on the shoulder and everything seemed to be attached, kept driving to the next exit, cars still wandering around. We tightened the bolts for the tow bar tabs as they'd crushed the bumper beam some. Got back on the interstate with the same problem.  My brother noticed when I was off to the side of the lane riding the stripe it seemed more stable, then we realized it was because the right lane was badly rutted. The rest of the way back we mostly forgot we were towing a car. Once it got dark we saw a large hay bale that had been run into/over countless times in the middle of the interstate and a guy towing a side by side in the second lane from the right at a snail's pace with a strap in Phoenix. We got to R's and worked on the WRX a little bit and then went to sleep.

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His shop is spacious, well lit, well insulated, and climate controlled. I brought my normal Subaru tool kit but he already had almost everything we needed. We swapped out the steering rack, both front CV axles (boot on one had just torn), one of the lower balljoints (couldn't loosen pinch bolt on the other one), shifter u-joint, oil cooler gasket, and catless uppipe.  All of these parts have been on the car for 19 years and 230,000 miles.

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When R showed me the new shifter u-joint he got from the dealer he said “look, this one has bushings in it.” We had to do a little mini lathe work I think to make a rollpin install tool for the steering u-joint. Over half the man hours were in replacing the up pipe. We didn't break any bolts but a lot of sea foam deep creep and heat was used on many of them. Had to remove more of the exhaust than R expected to remove so we had to get some more gaskets. Those, an O2 socket, ball joints, and a few other things required about a half dozen parts store visits. Fortunately most of them were fairly close by. I still think it might have been easier to remove the engine despite R's skepticism. We wound up removing the U brace to swap out the rack following slammo's advice, that turned out to be pretty easy. Went for a late night test drive and everything seemed to work fine. I was quite worried that the rack or a CV axle would puke its guts out but figured at least most of what we'd done would be a good fix. R's first reaction was that it was quieter than before, we'd fixed some kind of exhaust leak with all the gaskets we'd replaced. He's super happy with the fixes, says it's like owning a new car.

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Monday morning we packed up, welded the tow tabs on the Impreza with R's flux core welder, and headed east. So we used a Bridgeport, TIG welder, mini lathe, and flux core welder all in the same weekend.  Stayed the night at a cheap hotel in Vega, Texas.

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Kept driving the next day, had dinner with travelvw. Got home the next morning. Didn't use any oil the whole trip or have any problems once we got going.  Thursday morning slammo was in town, we troubleshot the white Outback's brake lights. A couple bulbs were burned out but the main problem was the switch was mostly not working. We swapped out the bulbs and one of the housings that was cracked. I got a switch in town and put it back together and they seem to work now.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Apparently I can't add any pictures because links have to be https now?

I did finally get some shirts made from Vegas to Reno, if you want some I put them on ebay:

Also have some other sizes and long sleeves if anyone wants them.
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1 hour ago, travelvw said:

Might be a good time to figure out the pics issue folks have mentioned many times? I can only see them thru Firefox, not on Chrome, Edge, or Safari.

Set aside a large long sleeve for me, please!

K

Very open to suggestion on how to better post pictures.

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Go to the Gallery here and create a album. There you can upload  pics from your computer, but they cant be any larger than 245.76kb. You an also upload from your computer using the link at the bottom in your reply. Pic for example, which is higher res 

 

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Trying to fix an oil leak on my 99 near/under the oil cooler.  Tried putting JB weld on the outside and running the shop vac hooked up to an old oil filter with a hole cut in it.  Unfortunately that didn't seemed to work, in the process of getting it all off and cleaned up and starting over now.

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Polyurethane for padding the engine to the skidplate, definitely needed for finishing the Vegas to Reno.  Funny to me that it's permanently bent now.

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Finally got our tires back from Baja Pits, this is the one that we had to replace at mile 6 in the Vegas to Reno.

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This was the hatch gap when I first got the red Impreza home.

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Taking the taillights off, always surprises me how much the sealant stretches.

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We did push and pull the bumper and hatch opening back to about where it should be.

Worst part of the red Impreza.  B cleaned it up and we got the door aligned better but I still plan on replacing it.

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Edited by pontoontodd
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Finally turned over 300,000 miles in the 99 Outback.  As B pointed out, it's really the 120,000 miles that we've put on it that are impressive.

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Took the low range out to inspect it recently.

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Considering it had a year of abuse on it, it wasn't in too bad shape.  Definitely have some ideas for how to improve them in the future.

Pile of parts for the other three we're trying to finish.

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We were able to get the low range installed back in the transmission without removing it.  Not easy but good to know that's possible.

Edited by pontoontodd
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1 hour ago, pressingonward said:

That's quite the door gap on the Impreza.

What is the gear reduction of your low range? I'm sure you've mentioned it, but I certainly don't remember! Glad to hear it is holding up.

2.94 if my calculations are correct.  Testing it on the bench and driving it seems to be about 3:1.

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3:1 is insane! Hill climbs in 5th at that ratio :Flame:

Good to hear it’s holding up well and that your planning slight tweaks to it as well. Hopefully these items take off for you and the greater subaru community! 

Tshirt designs look mint. Only car to finish?? I must’ve missed that detail in your previous posts about the race. That’s an awesome title to hold! 

Front struts look mint. 

Cheers 

Bennie

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3 hours ago, el_freddo said:

3:1 is insane! Hill climbs in 5th at that ratio :Flame:

Good to hear it’s holding up well and that your planning slight tweaks to it as well. Hopefully these items take off for you and the greater subaru community! 

Tshirt designs look mint. Only car to finish?? I must’ve missed that detail in your previous posts about the race. That’s an awesome title to hold! 

Front struts look mint. 

Cheers 

Bennie

Not sure about fifth gear but we definitely drove up a lot of hills at the off road park in fourth in low range.  Definitely a huge improvement in capability, time will tell how many people buy them.

We had the only car to finish the Vegas to Reno last year.  The only other car entered was a relatively stock beetle that didn't finish.  In the past beetles have finished but most people aren't crazy enough to try.  1600 buggies (stockish VW drivetrain and suspension) are even rarely entered, maybe one or two on average.  The organizers are also pretty sure we have the only station wagon to ever finish and I'm guessing we have the only unibody car or Japanese car to ever finish.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Couple recent fab projects.  R was sick of the factory rear lateral link adjusters either self adjusting or rusting solid in place.  Really don't like the idea of having the threaded bit right in the middle.  We made up these from some right and left hand bolts, threaded rod, bungs, and 1.125" tubing.  Brush painted them hoping that will hold up a little better than our normal rattle can painting.  Doesn't look as good and started assembly before they were fully cured because we're that impatient.  Used Whiteline bushings, have always just used Subaru in the past, they seem to last indefinitely.  These are far easier to install though.  Had to cut the old ones out.  Replaced eccentric bolts with 14mm bolts and nuts, welded some spacers inside the stock rings to locate the bolts.  Seems to work so far.large.IMG_6246s.jpg.2dd618de0cd8e282c6bbf6c142cd15fc.jpglarge.IMG_6256s.jpg.25cf6f5de1b9476e7bab1966f5d40657.jpglarge.IMG_6257s.jpg.c8c1e673f673b5c6ba692eeaf8eb6632.jpg

Finally got tired of using this dilapidated wooden block for the floor jack for our lifted Subarus.

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Another recent project.  B has been skeptical of the LR strut tower on his blue Forester.  He finally took out the interior to find this.  Car is otherwise rust free.

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After cleanup with some wire wheels it actually didn't look too bad.

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Looks like that whole corner of the car was replaced at some point.  Black on the inside and the VIN sticker doesn't match the rest of the car.  Can see where it was cut, rewelded, and repainted at the rear pillar too.

Used B's new high lift to spread/preload the towers a bit and did some welding.

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Added some strips at the bottom, seemed impossible to get a decent weld at that seam due to the thin layers, caulk, etc.  Painted and reassembled everything.  Also welded a bunch of other little cracks/gaps, most of them also from this old repair.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Now for the next dose of critters and carnage.

We hit the Kentucky Adventure Tour just outside of Lexington and headed east/clockwise.

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At least part of it followed the Daniel Boone Backcountry Byway.

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Fairly early on I thought we should check out one of the “hard” options. Almost immediately it went down a badly rutted out long steep grade. There was a wheel and tire assembly and Land Rover bumper along this grade, probably not a good sign. We thought we could probably get back up if we had to but figured it went through so one way or another we could get out.

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Portion of this was along an old railroad grade that someone spent a lot of effort building. Some of it was washed out making it barely wide enough for Subarus. Near the end of the day we got to a tunnel which went under the RR grade, drove down to that, through, and back up.

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Camped for the night along a stream.

The next morning we continued down the grade until we got to a four way intersection.

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Our first attempt was the GPX route which went up a fairly steep long rocky grade. I broke a rear axle trying to make the climb in high range. B towed me up to the next level spot with my car having only front wheel drive (center diff locked). We swapped it out.

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First time we've ever broken a CV stub, all the other rear axles I've broken have been the bar shaft. On closer inspection it turned out the bar shaft also broke!

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Just after we finished we were checking out the next portion of the climb which had even bigger rocks and we watched some modified UTVs cruise up it easily. I think we could have done it but we decided to try one of the other options. Our next attempt was to continue on the RR grade. There were a few badly washed out sections, some just wide enough for a Subaru to drive over. Other sections were so badly washed out that there were bypasses. One in particular went down and across a small stream. B tried it but didn't have enough approach angle and got the front end stuck in rocks. I tried pulling him back up the muddy clay bank but his car started sliding sideways.

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Eventually we used the high lift on the back bumper, shoveled out from under the car, and put a ramp under the RR tire. Then I was able to pull him out. We both drove through the stream and continued on.  Here you can see the (rail?) road base.

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Eventually we came to a bridge that didn't exist but the supports on either bank of the stream were impressive stone structures. There was a trail down to the stream but the bank was soft sand.

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I think we could have driven across it if we'd been able to get off to the side. I took my shoes and socks off and walked through. Put them back on and walked about a half mile down the grade. There was one narrow section but other than that it didn't look too bad. There was possibly a way down and across the stream and up out of the valley but I didn't walk it to see for sure. The grade eventually came to a narrow cut in the rock with an old locked gate at the far end. We decided to turn back around, this time I got stuck trying to drive up the soft bank on the far side of the one tiny stream. Winched to a nearby tree and continued back to the four way intersection. The last option crossed a river and required driving down the river a bit. B walked it, the water was a little over knee deep. I went first in the Outback with water coming over the front of the hood, probably the deepest water crossing I've ever done with it. Did get some inside but not a lot. Z drove the Forester across and we continued, eventually getting back to a main road.  Long story short it took us about a day to cover maybe five miles.

Z got stuck in a muddy section of trail in the Forester and right after we pulled him out a group of wild horses came down the trail.

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We stopped at a railroad trestle that was marked just off the route, there were a few trails there including one that went over the trestle.

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Sunday we did a lot of pavement driving. We were trying to hit the KY state high point and get close to Knoxville to pick up some wheels for travelvw. Most of the route seemed to be paved. We stopped at a park in VA to get out of the car and make PB&Js. Saw some red spotted newts mating in a small lake.

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We short cutted the easternmost part as it appeared to be paved on my map and this would get us to the Jackson NF. Unfortunately that was almost all paved too. We got to the high point of KY.

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Then we continued and eventually got to more unpaved sections.

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On a rutted out climb I dropped a tire in a big hole and when it came back down it broke the other rear axle. I was able to take an easier line up the hill in low with the center diff locked and made it up with just front wheel drive. B and I swapped out the axle and by then it was getting dark so we made dinner and set up the tents. This one broke the axle shaft but on closer inspection the outboard stub was cracked most of the way around.

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Monday morning I found a salamander and a big American(?) toad.

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Tried driving to Hensley Settlement even though that road was marked extreme on the GPX route. Got a ways up it and then stopped at a levelish spot.

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Just got rockier from there so we decided to turn around especially considering we were running out of time and had no more spare conversion axles. We drove up to Pinnacle Point in Cumberland Gap NHP.

Overall a decent trip, way more pavement driving than we like. Plenty of recovery practice and low range use. If this was the part of the country you lived in, a Toyota or something would be a much better tool for the job. Low range in both cars was working great all weekend. Engine oil leak in the Outback even seemed to slow down significantly.

 

Edited by pontoontodd
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12 minutes ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:

you had 2 spare axles with you?

Two of the rear R160/R180 conversion axles.  Seems to be the last weak link in the black Outback's drivetrain.  Left and right are slightly different lengths so luckily I had one of each and broke one of each.  They've been disappointingly weak but on the plus side they're much easier to replace in the field than a trans or diff.  Really have to get the billet knuckle program going so we can put front axles in the rear.

Also had standard front and rear axles packed.

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Trip looks like a blast, wish I could have gone.

You could get rear knuckles from a 5x100 sti and use stock 04 sti rear axles, but those are fitment for rear brembo or 2-pot brakes, neither of which would fit inside those 5-spoke OEM 15" wheels. I suppose it might be worth swapping the brake backing plate. At the end of the day, the stock sti rear axles aren't all that strong either, but they might get you by until the billet knuckles and diff stubs are ready.

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42 minutes ago, travelvw said:

Sounds like you're getting close on a total package that works. Those conversion axles must be junk! I assume that is your only option until you make billet rear knuckles? If so, I see why that's next on the list.
K

The conversion axles are the best of the R160 rear axles.  I don't think I'd ever broken any before the 6MT/R180 conversion, probably because the open R160 diff would go first.  Before this weekend I think I've broken three of them and two of those were trying to launch the car.

See slammo's post below but for the most part STI rear axles require STI knuckles which means bigger wheel bolt pattern and brakes.  Plus with the front axles in rear we'll probably just each carry one spare front axle which means less cargo weight and volume.

8 minutes ago, slammo said:

Trip looks like a blast, wish I could have gone.

You could get rear knuckles from a 5x100 sti and use stock 04 sti rear axles, but those are fitment for rear brembo or 2-pot brakes, neither of which would fit inside those 5-spoke OEM 15" wheels. I suppose it might be worth swapping the brake backing plate. At the end of the day, the stock sti rear axles aren't all that strong either, but they might get you by until the billet knuckles and diff stubs are ready.

Not the best trip ever but I'm glad we went.  That RR grade would be perfect in a mountain bike where you could just carry it over/through the occasional obstacle/stream, that whole section was pretty cool.  Maybe a dirt bike.

Diff stubs are already in the works.  Speaking of which, if anyone has any R180 spider gears I could use one for checking spline fitment.  Yeah really gotta get going on the knuckles.

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  • 4 weeks later...

B and I met travelvw last Friday in Missouri for some trail riding and camping.  Within an hour we got to a paved stream crossing. Got enough water in the car the power locks on the Outback stopped working. Did some trail riding that night, saw some small waterfalls. 

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Travelvw got stuck in a mud hole in his Marty McFly Toyota so I drove around and pulled him out. Didn't seem to hurt anything, he said later it was just an inch below the doors and trans/tcase vents. Camped out on a little hilltop, it was warm at night and rained quite a bit very early in the morning.

The next day we followed travelvw around. Saw more little waterfalls and some excellent views.

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He talked us into trying one rocky climb that we probably would have just driven around on our own. I was able to get most of the way up the hard way in low with center diff locked but the ledges were spaced just right so I'd get all four wheels stuck in muddy ditches and couldn't quite make it all the way. Took an easier line and was able to make it up. B tried it in the Forester with the dual range a couple times, couldn't get quite as far, and took the bypass. Went to an old school bus that's been parked for a long time.

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Went to a campsite along a big stream and parked the cars, travelvw's friend R showed up and we all rode in travelvw's truck across the stream and a little farther down the trail to a cool waterfall.

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While we were walking around I saw a baby snapping turtle floating helplessly down the stream. Thought it was a leaf at first. I was able to grab it out of the water and showed the guys. It was playing dead so I took it back to the campsite. It eventually started crawling again so B took it in the woods so we wouldn't step on it.

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Sunday morning we went to a trailhead and travelvw got in B's car and R got in mine. We did a loop we'd done Saturday just to show R the trails and what the cars could do. More cool rocky climbs and great views.

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Stopped at an old cellar to make PB&Js and check on a few things, just tightened up some bolts. 

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Kept going and got to a badly rutted out muddy section (with an easy bypass).  Travelvw was going to just drive around it but when I told him I was going to try it he had to. After about half a dozen tries he made it through. I made it most of the way through and to keep from backing up and packing my skidplates with mud travelvw pulled me the rest of the way through.

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Got to an old farm and a strong flowing spring and big stream.

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Left front corner on the Outback was starting to make a lot of clunking noise. At first it just seemed like the control arm bushing(s) was worn out but then we noticed the subframe was cracked. Turned out later the inner tie rod was worn out too. It was supposed to rain an inch the next morning so we wanted to be fairly close to gravel so it wouldn't be too challenging to get out. 

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Travelvw found a moth with a cool paint job.

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Monday morning I wanted to get off the trails before it started raining so we aired up and ran from the storm. Corner was a little sketchy on hard right turns but mostly unnoticeable on tarmac. Stopped at a little city park on the way home to get out of the cars and make PB&Js. While I was making them I saw something swimming in the pond, it looked like a carp. We looked at it closer and it turned out to be a common water snake. Got some good pictures of it and saw another one swimming around too.

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Power locks were working again by the time we got home.

Overall a great trip, no major issues, each of us only got stuck once. Lots of low range usage. Probably the trip we've done where low range was most required just to make any of the major trail loops. Used it less than 5% of the time but absolutely required many of those times. Also made it a lot easier to hit some of the steps and obstacles slower than we would have in the past to go easier on the cars. By the end of the weekend I figured out that it's difficult to unlock the center diff (all other shifting super easy) so I only locked that when I really needed it, which was quite a few times.  Travelvw wants the low range and long travel but is thinking he'd add 2” of subframe and strut spacers. This would reduce a lot of rubbing, banging, and scraping on those trails. I told him just stick with his Toyota for that kind of stuff but the lift would definitely have helped our cars down there.


Already welded the crossmember and removed the control arm to replace the bushings.

We're planning a couple of trips to the UP in late May / early June, if anyone's interested in joining us please PM me.

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Great trip, happy to show you around my local woods. The Subaru's had no problem doing the toughest trails in the area. What video we shot will(may) show how impressive the low range is, particularly the Outback's 3:1/6spd combo, really incredible!! Nearly crawls like my pickup at 4.7:1, which is crazy to see a Subaru do in person! The short, rocky climb we did Saturday where we passed the horses had me thinking they were riding the ideal transportation for that particular trail. Friday had a long muddy, washed out, steep climb, too and ya'll scooted up it like it was nothing.

Yep, I already have a set of long travel struts, but I'm convinced the low range and 6spd is the ultimate gearing/drive train combo. That said, B's Forester required only a little more throttle and momentum, which is the complete opposite of the last trip we did in the Ozarks. Both cars were extremely capable and nothing broke. The only thing I would change for these kind of trails (as you mentioned), is more ground clearance and larger tires. Most folks doing any serious off-roading in a Subaru have 4" plus spacers; I'll probably do at least 2-3" and 29" tires. Sure, it won't handle as well at speed, but as you saw, with 2' or so more body ground clearance on my truck, I never got any more tipsy on those trails. Anything can be put on it's side given the wrong obstacle/route/driver, but you're nowhere near top heavy, IMO. There's certainly something in between here. Beating your cars thru obstacles is really hard on the body and I think it's mostly unnecessary, but I guess we will agree to disagree :).

Looking down the horse trail (which seems like a muddy rut in rolling hills in the pic), is damn near a straight shot up, rocky climb from the creek to the top of the ridge. Subaru, no problem.

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More of the muddy, rutted section I drug my diffs thru w/33's and barley made it pinned in low 3rd. Last section of that climb out has been created by 35-40" tires.

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Sunset camp.

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K

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