MR_Loyale Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I am posting the forensic evidence so that hopefully someone can see something that was done wrong. 43K ago I put in a new pressure plate, clutch, pilot bearing and even took the flywheel off to have it surfaced. Oh and I replaced the rear main seal too for good measure. So now I have the engine out and I put my finger into the pilot bearing hole and it has a grinding feel. Then I get the pressure plate off and I see score marks on the clutch disc, pressure plate and flywheel. I know there were no contaminants on either the pressure plate, flywheel or clutch because I used surgical gloves and it was cleaned with brake cleaner prior to install. However I did occasionally have clutch chatter. What went wrong? I don't want to make the same mistake twice! And what is up with the grease in the bell housing? I replaced the rear main seal 43K ago. Could the transmission be leaking this? It is also all greasy inside and I cleaned very well 43K ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruparts Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 hi, not too sure about the marks, but i've seen some clutch discs have short strands of what appear to be brass wire imbedded in the fiber of the disc, factory not accidental. as for the oil , if your motor has that metal plate cover on the back of the block, it's behind the flywheel, the gasket on those are bad to seep or outright blow oil ,, it's a area that is subject to crankcase pressure, so if the pcv system has any abnormal pressure it tends to force oil vapor out the weakest place?? and i've never encountered one of those covers that the screws were not just finger tight. i think they get loose as the gasket shrinks or maybe it's the planned obselessence thing at work by having a cover that is bound to leak in a couple of years time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
81EA81 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 It looks like the "grease" is an oil leak that has mixed with dust from the friction disc. Id recommend removing your flywheel and fixing any leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted May 20, 2014 Author Share Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) Yup, I got an oil leak to fix, I think that is established. But the question is this from the transaxle (which is also covered on the inside) or the engine. OK so I removed the flywheel and there are no plates back there, just two big honking hexagonal keyed plugs that I think are used during assembly of the pistons to access the wrist pin clip thingies. One appear to perhaps be leaking. Gonna do the UV light tonight to be sure.If no glow is there then it is definitely from the transmission. Pics soon to follow. Edited May 20, 2014 by MR_Loyale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted May 20, 2014 Author Share Posted May 20, 2014 (edited) The pics show that indeed the "plug" appears to be leaking: What tool do I use t get that plug out? Edited May 20, 2014 by MR_Loyale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 its a 14mm w an aluminium crush washer. I use an elongated bolt from an ea82 w ac that I cut the threads off of. works everytime 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratman977 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Napa sells the 14mm hex socket. It was $15. Although the way in the above post is clever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmashedGlass Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I can second the 14mm bolt method. We've used the same technique back in my Army days countless times; take a bolt with the right size hex head, and weld another nut on the bolt shaft to give you a place to wrench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Other than the leak, I don't see anything "wrong".....that's not even a terribly worn clutch.....just used for 43k miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted May 20, 2014 Author Share Posted May 20, 2014 Other than the leak, I don't see anything "wrong".....that's not even a terribly worn clutch.....just used for 43k miles. The pilot bearing was all munged up. You go to turn it and it is like there is sand in it. Maybe that cause the clutch marks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Looking at the first picture it looks to me that the oil may be coming from above, though the seal may be leaking also. Notice the dark plug at the top of the picture and the way the oil seems to have a cleaner path way possibly due to the fresh oil coming down. How does the area above that look for signs of oil? I suspect the plug on the left just has a ridge where oil can collect and isn't really leaking from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru_dude Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I'm gonna bet it's an input shaft seal. They're super cheap on Amazon. You'll have to split the transmission case but that's not as bad as it sounds. I've never had one that didn't leak after taking it apart though, but I'm a sucky mechanic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Napa sells the 14mm hex socket. It was $15. Although the way in the above post is clever. yup, mine are free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 Looking at the first picture it looks to me that the oil may be coming from above, though the seal may be leaking also. Notice the dark plug at the top of the picture and the way the oil seems to have a cleaner path way possibly due to the fresh oil coming down. How does the area above that look for signs of oil? I suspect the plug on the left just has a ridge where oil can collect and isn't really leaking from there. The area on top of the block just above is bone dry clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I am posting the forensic evidence so that hopefully someone can see something that was done wrong. 43K ago I put in a new pressure plate, clutch, pilot bearing and even took the flywheel off to have it surfaced. Oh and I replaced the rear main seal too for good measure. However I did occasionally have clutch chatter. What went wrong? I don't want to make the same mistake twice! And what is up with the grease in the bell housing? I replaced the rear main seal 43K ago. Could the transmission be leaking this? It is also all greasy inside and I cleaned very well 43K ago. Check the flywheel depth all around especially comparing the darker areas to the lighter. Straight edge and dial calipers would do. It looks to me like the flywheel wasn't surfaced parallel to clutch cover surface. Ask me how I know....had the same kind of chatter a few years ago after a rebuild & it was a badly ground flywheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 Check the flywheel depth all around especially comparing the darker areas to the lighter. Straight edge and dial calipers would do. It looks to me like the flywheel wasn't surfaced parallel to clutch cover surface. Ask me how I know....had the same kind of chatter a few years ago after a rebuild & it was a badly ground flywheel. HOLY CRAP! That never occurred to me. That would definitely munge the pilot bearing too wouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) HOLY CRAP! That never occurred to me. That would definitely munge the pilot bearing too wouldn't it? Sure would. Imagine the whole assembly, clutch cover & disc, oscillating in & out against the TO bearing. The friction disc being flexed on the input shaft splines while the pilot bearing is struggling to keeps things aligned. Mike the friction disc all around to see if the lining is still even. If its thinner toward the outside than the center then pressure wasn't applied evenly - un-square flywheel. Edited May 22, 2014 by czny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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