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bluedotsnow

if its not one thing.... coolant loss, bubbles in overflow

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96 legacy l 2.2 vin 4

 

after replacing my transmission (unrelated) my cooling system problems have come back any and all help appreciated.

 

coolant over flow will sporadically have dime sized bubbles or very frothy fluid

 

I have filled and burped the system several times 

 

I suspect the radiator might be leaking but I can't test

 

upper and lower hoses get really hard, harder than normal I think

 

NO coolant smell in exhaust

 

NO exhaust smell in coolant

 

hoping this is not head gaskets but prepared to replace as needed. 

Edited by bluedotsnow

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if it is head gaskets would torquing the heads down a pound or two more be a horrible idea? I'm really on the ropes with lack of funding and need of vehicle to make said funding... 

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after engine cooled still warm to the touch I noticed that the upper radiator hose was sucked flat and the overflow tank is as full as it was and is not letting coolant back into the system. 

 

I do have a subaru rad cap its 60k old give or take

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Probably head gaskets. How soon after starting are the radiator hoses pressurized? Shouldn't be any pressure until the engine is warm, after the thermostat opens. If there is pressure in the hoses after only a minute or so, that's a bad head gasket.

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+1 sounds like headgaskets

 

another member (since banned i believe) said he limped his along for a year by filling the system with brake fluid instead of coolant.  he claimed it has better properties to mitigate the overheating. who is up to try that craziness!?

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If you suspect a head hasket, it would be easy and worth considering to follow the re-torque procedure, although it is never practiced. 

 

I guess there is no compromise to do so if a HG service is inevitable.

 

The 1996 ej22e has a composite head gasket and is not prone to the same pattern failures of milti layer steel in the 2.5 and 1999+ 2.2

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1996 Ej22 headgaskets are really easy.  all the head bolts are external, it's the one crazy-easy Subaru headgasket job.

 

alternately an EJ22 or EJ18 can be found cheapily and installed and sometimes be cheaper than a head job.

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after engine cooled still warm to the touch I noticed that the upper radiator hose was sucked flat and the overflow tank is as full as it was and is not letting coolant back into the system. 

 

I do have a subaru rad cap its 60k old give or take

+1 try a new cap, and make sure the hose clamps are tight on all the radiator hoses, if one is loose that could suck air into the system possibly if the conditions are just right.

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Thanks so much for the responses! 

 

NOT IT on the break fluid!!!!!

 

will fork out for a new radiator cap...

 

will quadruple check all hoses...

 

Mr. Fox can you please point me in the direction of that re-torque procedure? 

 

the head gaskets in my car now are ishino stone (world pac) and I believe they are a multi layer steel... 65k since installed.

 

when installed the driver side gasket was mashed with a head then dropped on the ground... possibly compromising it.... but its lasted this long...

Edited by bluedotsnow

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exhaust gases pushing into coolant is more typical with replaced gaskets - so that's very similar to many other failures.

 

though let's hope you find a rad cap or other issue....

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could a lazy tstat cause this? last time I tested mine (one month ago) I remember it opening after the water boiled. I know the cars are supposed to run around 190F so if its not opening until 211ish.... when I have money for more coolant I will test it again with my IR thermometer.

 

fsm says

d. Leakage around cylinder head gasket Retighten cylinder head bolts or replace gasket.

no reference to a retorque procedure how much would I back them off before starting the procedure?

Edited by bluedotsnow

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aftermarket tstats cause problems....but generally not bubbles in the overflow.

 

seems unlikely but definitely want to be sure and diagnose properly.

 

drain coolant into a clean container and reuse it.

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as stated tstat is oem 65k old

 

I was thinking today its funny that one other friend of mine developed the same problem as I am having within a month of when my cooling problems started... we made some enemy in employee housing because some $@#$% don't know how to be respectful of others.. I'm wondering if someone could have backed a bolt off a little to codswallop with us... oh well on with resolving

 

thanks for all the help guys and galls

Edited by bluedotsnow

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sequence and torque specs can be found here

 

you want to open MSA5TCD96L5965 (about middle of the list)

well yes I know where the torque procedure but was hoping for a (different) re-torquing procedure....

 

I don't want to back the bolts off so much that the head has play to completely unseat from the gasket< spilling coolant and oil mixing ... bad.... me thinks

 

I know I can use the procedure again but it states nothing about how much I should loosen it and I do know about the different removal pattern

 

I'm thinking I will try to add 5-10 degrees or 1-2 ftlbs of torque to each bolt in sequence ( if I need to)

 

I'm going to get a new subaru cap and thermo before doing anything else.

 

 

for the record its MSA5TCD96L5969.pdf < I rename files when I find info so this one in my rar archive is MSA5TCD96L5969headgs.pdf this helps for quick reference when browsing.

 

 

 

1) Install cylinder head and gaskets on cylinder block.

 

CAUTION:

Use new cylinder head gaskets.

 

2) Tighten cylinder head bolts.

(1) Apply a coat of engine oil to washers and bolt

threads.

 

(2) Tighten all bolts to 29 N⋅m (3.0 kg-m, 22 ft-lb) in

numerical sequence.

Then tighten all bolts to 69 N⋅m (7.0 kg-m, 51 ft-lb) in

numerical sequence.

 

(3) Back off all bolts by 180° first; back them off by 180°

again.

 

(4) Tighten bolts 1 and 2 to 34 N⋅m (3.5 kg-m, 25 ftlb).

 

(5) Tighten bolts 3 , 4 , 5 and 6 to 15 N⋅m (1.5 kg-m,

11 ft-lb).

 

(6) Tighten all bolts by 80 to 90° in numerical

sequence.

 

CAUTION:

Do not tighten bolts more than 90°.

 

(7) Further tighten all bolts by 80 to 90° in numerical

sequence.

 

CAUTION:

Ensure that the total “re-tightening angle” [steps (6)

and (7) above] do not exceed 180°.

Edited by bluedotsnow

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today my girlfriends car started acting up! (95 legacy 2.2 MT)after driving all day and 200+ miles 5 miles from home the car's temp gauge rose about 4 marks above center almost above the icon. it settled down 2 minutes later and fluctuated a bit before leveling off once again to be fine. I did notice that the upper radiator hose was hot and had a small amount of air that I filled with about an ounce of coolant. when we pulled up to the house the radiator fans were on and stayed on engine off key on accessory for about 10 minutes before turning off. the over flow tank was fine and its tube open.

 

does this sound like a lazy/clogged thermostat?

 

I have noticed cooling system issues with both of out cars as the temperatures drop... we live around snow level and have to drive to work at a resort... could the cold temps have shrunk the gasket or effectively reduce the tension held by the head bolts?

 

I'm going to look over my car again and then see about adding a foot lb or two

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can someone verify this is the BEST subaru head gasket I can use on my car?

 

subaru part number 11044AA114

 

I noticed that this gasket is not used for 96 legacy only 96 impreza. my production date is 10/95 and was sold as a 96

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can someone verify this is the BEST subaru head gasket I can use on my car?

 

subaru part number 11044AA114

 

I noticed that this gasket is not used for 96 legacy only 96 impreza. my production date is 10/95 and was sold as a 96

 

Yes, that's what subarus lists for that engine:

http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b11/type_24/engine/cylinder_head/illustration_1/

 

That's the gasket I would use though truthfully EJ22 headgasket failure is rare enough that there's a lot smaller sample size of experience for them.

 

No - cold temps would not effect the gasket - or wouldn't effect a properly functioning gasket I should say.  Temperatures wouldn't be the root cause.  A 50 degree temperature change is mild for an engine, they see a 100+ degree temperature change every time they are started from ambient temperature to the coolant temperature and internal combustion temps.

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thanks for the info gary! I'm with you but hear me out. the head gaskets were installed in august hot it California, I then drove the car for 2 winters and 2 summers. and half way through that moved to 7800 ft elevation since then the car has experienced temps well below 0 and I know what your muttering to yourself but my thinking is that because of the temperature was generally warm when installed after the gasket "packed down" from use that the now after expanding and contracting from hard driving in 10 degree weather over a long period of time is no longer torqued adequately, ie head bolts backing off slightly or gasket shrinking... I am almost positive I do NOT have a MLS gasket there were multiple layers but not 3 riveted together... it was a composite with steel vanes on one side. 

 

I have read alot about gaskets and understand that ishino stone are generally made by the same people as subaru dealership gaskets but the quality could be different and or less desirable from ishino stone because of manufacturer quality control and sending the dealer the best quality parts.

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it's fun to speculate no doubt, too bad we can't do it while watching duck dynasty with a bourbon and coke. but ambient temps are rather benign in terms of combustion and internals of an ICE.  as an example, thousands of rebuilt/remanufactured engines or engines with newly installed headgaskets will be installed this winter in places -30 and below.  thousands are routinely assembled in warm shop and driven out the door without issue every winter.

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does the girlfriends car have an OEM-style t'stat?

 

because of the smaller wax capsule - I THINK 'regular' aftermarket t'stats can close when they shouldn't - hanging down in the cold like they do.

 

but certainly, her car's cooling system in general should be checked-over.

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it's fun to speculate no doubt, too bad we can't do it while watching duck dynasty with a bourbon and coke. but ambient temps are rather benign in terms of combustion and internals of an ICE.  as an example, thousands of rebuilt/remanufactured engines or engines with newly installed headgaskets will be installed this winter in places -30 and below.  thousands are routinely assembled in warm shop and driven out the door without issue every winter.

 

 

yes I agree 1000%

 

MY head gasket was installed by a drunk person who I later learned only cared enough about my car to make his money.... my head gasket was compromised by mashing and dropping... so this was not a typical install or a competent one. on one of the heads the installer messed up the torque sequence (90%sure NOT MLS) after mashing that same gasket... backed off bolts and re-torqued  I'm not trying to get the whole forum to speculate over my problems I really appreciate the responses and have gotten what I was looking for from the question asked. THANKS GUYS!

Edited by bluedotsnow

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does the girlfriends car have an OEM-style t'stat?

 

because of the smaller wax capsule - I THINK 'regular' aftermarket t'stats can close when they shouldn't - hanging down in the cold like they do.

 

but certainly, her car's cooling system in general should be checked-over.

 

 

yes oem tstat old however...

 

one similarity in our cars is we used a cooling system sealant that was recommended for separate reasons mine overheating, hers was just because she saw a tone of white smoke come out of the tail pipe that was likely just condensation in her muffler it was cold and the cloud dissipated quickly.

 

first on her car then on mine if successful we will do a cooling system flush (recommendations please) and then replace the thermostat and cap with subaru as well as use subaru coolant. I wish we had the $100 to get it flushed at a dealership with the PROPER flush machine I know does not recirculate best ever ONLY SOA approved flush... but we just don't have the money... I hate it when being poor perpetuates through inadequate maintenance I loose this beast and I'm screwed!

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