pginter96 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) After finishing my EJ22 swap and starting it up for the first time it knocked and clattered. I expected it to for w little while, at least to break itself in. The only issue is that Ive driven about 150 miles and the noises haven't gotten much better. There's a "mid-end" (I would call it bottom end but cant for a boxer apparently) knock, sounds almost like a rod knock. Its fairly quiet, I have heard worse. There's also a bit of lifter clatter. That is a bit louder. Both noises are present no matter what temperature the engine is at, slightly worse on cold starts. The rod knock-type sound goes away when the engine is under load, while the lifter clatter might get quieter but its tough to tell. I had the car up on a lift with it running yesterday and it has a pretty substantial leak from the center of the timing cover. At first I thought it was a crank seal leak, just like my old EJ25D had. The oil is leaking from two places though, both about an inch or two off-center from either side of the crank. I just put two and two together... This engine supposedly came from an Impreza that hit a deer. the harmonic dampener was pushed through the timing belt cover, and the cover was too damaged to re-use. Could the oil pump be damaged? I know I have a habit of being in denial, but I find it hard to believe I have two engine noises that are usually caused by oil starvation and coincidentally a leak near the pump that would cause a lack of pressure. I don't have any means of checking oil pressure otherwise I would have already. Would a high-volume oil pump be worth considering? There's a 12mm pump on Amazon for around $120. Pros and cons to high-volume? EDIT: link - http://www.amazon.com/Evergreen-OP9002-Forester-Impreza-Outback/dp/B00M4QO1DA Edited January 4, 2015 by pginter96 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pginter96 Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) Here is a video of it running Edited January 4, 2015 by pginter96 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyeights Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) These engines aren't that hard to work on. I would pull the timing cover and inspect, replace, or re-seal the engine oil pump. The screws on the back tend to loosen up anyway as I recall. I would think that the lifters should be silent by now if they are the hydraulic style. All of mine have been silent within 15 minutes of first start. Good Luck Edited January 4, 2015 by Crazyeights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Sounds like bottom end noise. Perhaps rebuild the oil pump and lic-tire the screws behind the rotor and 40 wt oil and see what that does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 It's not HLA's or piston slap? No way the oil pump was damaged. The timing cover damage/interference is very typical, not a big deal and doesn't suggest something more ominous. Pull the cover and reseal whatever is leaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outbailey Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I have a '00 Subaru Outback that I installed a rebuilt EJ25 2.5L long block that makes the same noise. I guess the hydraulic timing belt tensioner can be the culprit. Unfortunately, this is my only vehicle now, so an engine tear down inspection is not much of an option. The rebuild has 25,000 miles on it and it started to make the "knocking" sound after 12,000 miles.....just past the rebuild warranty period. The sound drives me nuts. The engine runs fine, no CEL, and the fuel economy is 15 mpg city, 32 mpg highway. Still driving it sounding like a ticking time bomb. Please post your cure...if you find it. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pginter96 Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Thanks for the info It wouldnt be a timing belt tensioner, the one on there is brand new, I changed it before the swap. So in other words a high volume pump wouldnt be worth it? Im curious about it... What harm could a high-volume pump cause? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pginter96 Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Also, (this is directed more towards MilesFox,) what are your thoughts on 15-50 full synthetic? The guy I got my engine from runs 15-50 synthetic in his crazy wrx drivetrain swapped, sti 5 speed 95 legacy EJ22 with over 250k on it and he swears by it. Oil is a tricky subject, it seems everyone is partial to something, I dont have enough experience to, and everyones telling me something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 15- 50 may be fine for a turbo because that engine needs the higher temperature protection. On an N/A block I wouldn't use anything more than 5-40 or 0-40 synthetic if you're dead set on using expensive oil. I've always run 5-30 Dino in my Subarus. Never had any issues with it. The oil pump wouldn't suffer any damage from that unless you can see visible damage/markings on the front of the pump. If there was visible damage damage to the pump why would you even chance re-using it? My bigger worry in a front end impact is damage to the thrust bearing on the crankshaft. You'd have to hit one hell of a deer to shove the radiator into the engine hard enough to hurt the crankshaft. Subarus are low enough that deer generally roll up and off the hood. If the pulley was damaged, they hit a tree, or another vehicle. Oil leak could be the pressure switch on top of the block, or the o-ring behind the pump. Check on top, if you don't see oil then you need to pull the front end down and reseal the oil pump. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pginter96 Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 As stated before, the leak is behind the timing belt cover, so not the pressure switch. I bought the pump I linked above on Amazon, I should have a chance to replace it on thursday. This car is my only mode of transportation so I'll just need it to hold together until then. The engine is a whole sifferent story... I bought it with no intention to put it in my car over the summer, head gaskets made me desperate. I never saw it run, and dont know if the supposed 140k is true. I dont even know for certain what it came out of. I would never have bought this engine if I knew I would run it, just too sketchy. It was a gamble, and I knew it, not sure if its paid off yet. Either way it gets me more places than a constantly overheating EJ25D would. I didnt see any visible damage to the pump. I saw oil residue like there had been a leak, I just assumed it was a crank seal and didnt bother to change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Oil is a tricky subject, it seems everyone is partial to something, I dont have enough experience to, and everyones telling me something different. Actually it's the opposite - a very easy subject - because it doesn't matter. follow the owners manual. Since it doesn't matter - the allure of being right means people can be partial, tell you their stance, and what has worked for them...and they're always right! so attractive, so addictive..i might make a website called "Garyistheoilguy" for people to academically pontificate themselves into inactive boredom...it gets confusing if you over analyze it. That's why there's so many opinions, discussions, and different approaches...it doesn't matter. My secret to having no blown engine in the dozens of Subaru's I've owned...got a note pad ready, this is cutting edge oil protection...buy whatever is cheap/on sale. *** Turbo engines, towing, racing (and maybe some newer Subarus) - severe use conditions - those are different discussions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Also, (this is directed more towards MilesFox,) what are your thoughts on 15-50 full synthetic? The guy I got my engine from runs 15-50 synthetic in his crazy wrx drivetrain swapped, sti 5 speed 95 legacy EJ22 with over 250k on it and he swears by it. Oil is a tricky subject, it seems everyone is partial to something, I dont have enough experience to, and everyones telling me something different. I would say this is appropriate for extreme duty considering that the viscosity range calls for a 10w30, 10w40 and 20w50 for n/a apllications for temps above -4 deg F. to 104 deg F. Perhaps a 5w50 oil is available with premium synthetic brands and would be appropriate for a cold climate. I would put this together and say that 15w50 is appropriate for summer temps in your climate. Once again, i am using 0w40 in leu of 10w40 for this viscosity range vs climate, and Mobil brand since the price is right for about $27 bucks for a 5 qt jug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pginter96 Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Well I'm replacing the oil pump now. Just had another thought- when I swapped the engine I put the harmonic dampener from the 25 on the 22. Could the different weight be causing some grief? Also, the timing gear pulley puller I bought doesn't fit the crank sprocket. Is there some trick to getting it off without it, or should I loosen the oil pump and (gently) pry it off? Or am I dead in the water? EDIT-got the sprocket off by using two screwdrivers on either side and prying Edited January 12, 2015 by pginter96 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pginter96 Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 Also, (milesfox should be happy about this) there was a sale on 5 qts Mobile 1 synthetic and a filter, so I just figured ah what the heck it's like $3 more than a conventional oil change so I'll run 0-40 And see if that helps any. With the new pump, correct dampner, and 0-40 hopefully something will make a difference 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdeadeye1 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 well report back and let us know.. im interested. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pginter96 Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Well I got the new oil pump on yesterday... And it leaks! 99.99999% sure thats its not my fault, it appeared to be leaking from the brass plug at the bottom, as opposed to the actual housing itself (about a drip every second or two at idle). took that brass plug off, and there was a mark around it where it was making contact with the pump housing, and there was a gap in it as if it werent sealing all the way. Hopefully a crush washer and some RTV will do the trick. Ill start it up later today when the RTV is cured and then we'll see if its just a cheap crappy part or if Im too stupid to seal it correctly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pginter96 Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 well the leak is fixed and all is supposedly well, but the knock didn't go away! Better get the 2.5 back together. And my exhaust just got a new, pretty bad leak on the test drive. One thing after another... I love this car, but I think it may be time to say goodbye and look at something newer. I'm running out of motivation to keep fixing this car every weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 The lifters on these engines make a hell of a racket if they bleed out or get air pumped into them. Usually takes 30 minutes or so for them to pump back up. I know how you feel. I just spent a bunch of money on both of mine, and working in the driveway in the cold isn't exactly my idea of fun. But if it means having no car payment, its worth it in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) If that video contained all your noise, I wouldn't be worried. Sounds like a typical tappy EJ motor to me. 150 miles is usually enough for the HLAs to quiet down. Some don't and can be replaced. Exhaust leaks are easy. Drive it for a while. Keep listening, but my guess is that you're worrying too much about relatively normal subaru clatter. Edited January 18, 2015 by AdventureSubaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Pin Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 What year 2.2 did you put in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 If that video contained all your noise, I wouldn't be worried. Sounds like a typical tappy EJ motor to me. 150 miles is usually enough for the HLAs to quiet down. Some don't and can be replaced. Exhaust leaks are easy. Drive it for a while. Keep listening, but my guess is that you're worrying too much about relatively normal subaru clatter. Video of your noisy engine did not seem so noisy to me. Sounds like simple valve clatter, not anything serious like bearing rod knock. I would just drive on, it may quiet down a little on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Well I'm replacing the oil pump now. Just had another thought- when I swapped the engine I put the harmonic dampener from the 25 on the 22. Could the different weight be causing some grief? Also, the timing gear pulley puller I bought doesn't fit the crank sprocket. Is there some trick to getting it off without it, or should I loosen the oil pump and (gently) pry it off? Or am I dead in the water? EDIT-got the sprocket off by using two screwdrivers on either side and prying A little late with these comments.....But just to contribute for others reading in the future.... One can tap the 2 holes in the sprocket for a 5/16th bolt (or 8mm, but will require drilling out a tad) and then use a steering wheel type puller. And yes, for the record... front end impact can disturb the seal of Oil pump, the heads, and even block halves in an offset frontal crash. I ran an engine for about 10k miles after a major front end impact. The seal between the block halves had been compromised, so the oil for the drivers side half was draining out on shutdown. after 10k it threw a rod. 96 EJ22 with about 200k on it. Regular oil changes otherwise a good motor til the crash. When opened up, the dowels at the heads/block looked like hour glasses. Clearly the head had shifted 1/4" or more sideways on the block face. And the o-rings between the block halves were clearly disturbed and distorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ej22Buggy Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I have the same noise too. If you listen carefully to the video you can hear two different noises. Light ticking is the lifters and not a big deal. But the louder and slower tick/knock is what I have too. It almost sounds like a large check valve/ball shuttling back and forth. And it sounds like its coming from the center of the motor. I'd really like to know what it is. Until then, I'm going to be looking for a back-up ej22 to swap in when "the day" comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pginter96 Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 I have the same noise too. If you listen carefully to the video you can hear two different noises. Light ticking is the lifters and not a big deal. But the louder and slower tick/knock is what I have too. It almost sounds like a large check valve/ball shuttling back and forth. And it sounds like its coming from the center of the motor. I'd really like to know what it is. Until then, I'm going to be looking for a back-up ej22 to swap in when "the day" comes. I FOUND OUT! Had the head tech at the Subaru dealer look it over and I talked with him about it. He said back in the day when these motors were more common and in warranty, they used to have many come in. He said its a combination of wrist pin noise and piston slap from the extreemly short skirted pistons. I have 6K miles on that motor since the swap, and he seems confident I can get many more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehawk618 Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 (edited) I've had that knock after installing new timing belt kits twice. It was the brand new tensioner each time. Believe me or not that's your choice. It was fairly easy to prove. Remove outer covers, start car. I used a screwdriver to push on the tensioner pressure point and poof sound gone. Edited March 27, 2016 by firehawk618 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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