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How To Keep Engine Cooler? Any Ideas?


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1989 GL SPFI Metal caps on radiator. (no plastic on radiator)

 

Currently it is running Peak antifreeze, (blue container with mountains in the background) i just bought the best stuff, (well i think it is).. the thermostat was changed to a brand new beck n arnley a year ago and im pretty sure theres nothing "clogged" in the cooling system, i have flushed it twice, once in august 2014 and again in march of 2015.

 

Today it got to 98 degrees F, and my tempeature needle was at 3/4 the way, it usually sits between 1/4 or lower when the tempeature is at or below 90F outside, but if it goes above 95F, it goes half or past half. 3/4 scares me (that was today) and tempeatures here during the summer go to 115F, i need a solution or when the tempeature goes above 100F, i will have to drive my Impreza and park my GL :(

 

it has a mechanical belt driven fan (changed to a new one 3months ago, that was expensive) and 1 stock electric fan that i rigged to always run no matter what (both are working fine).. i noticed this overheating problem back in september but since it was becoming fall already, issue quickly went away once highs went below 95F. its interesting because if the tempeature is below 95, it just stays perfectly fine at 1/4 but if its like 97 or 98, it jumps like crazy to half or 3/4.

 

Does anyone else have these problems when tempeatures go above 100F? any suggestions or brands of antifreeze? its getting toasty down here in Texas...

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oh and im currently running 10w-30 full synthetic if that matters any with the engine temperature, will be switching to 10w-40 on my next oil change (in 2,000miles) to help with the wear in this heat.

Edited by Subasaurus
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First off, get a OEM thermostat. Aftermarket ones have a smaller internal diameter and may mean the difference in overheating with the already marginal ea82 cooling system.

 

secondly,make damn sure you have 100% of all the air out of the system.

 

thirdly, in texas heat you can run distilled water for coolant with a small percentage of antifreeze for its anti-corrosion properties.

 

Fourth make sure that your electric fan is actually spinning the correct way.If its mounted in the engine bay it needs to be PULLING air through the radiator.

 

Lastly, if all that wont help than look at degreasing the engine down to bare aluminum and installing some hood vents.Grease is an insulator,and heat rises.The best location for a vent is after the radiator to about the middle of the hood.After that, any opening in the hood will act as a scoop letting in air rather than letting air out.Unless the vents dip down at the front to create a low pressure zone.

 

 

EDIT: this is a vented hood I made for my hatch.It dropped the temps by 1/8 of the gauge-so probally 10-15*F.

DSC00267_zpsb3bf4421.jpg~original

Edited by Uberoo
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Beside the good advices posted above by Uberoo, 

 

You must be aware that there are Two types of Radiators for the EA82:

 

The Single-Row ones, and the Double Row Ones.

 

You can change the Single Row for a Double Row Radiator, 

 

And you can use a Lower Temp ThermoSwitch that I found, here:

 

~► http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/125754-easy-guide-on-five-steps-to-twin-electric-fans-swap/

 

Kind Regards.

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I would recommend against thinning out the antifreeze. Not only does the coolant (ethylene glycol) in the cooling system cool the engine but that coolant also lubricates the water pump. I would go with the recommended ratio of coolant to distilled water.

 

Might want to consider that you could have a head gasket leak.

Edited by MR_Loyale
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Aside from what has been offered: I have a stock radiator with stock electric fan (unmolested) and I added one of the mechanical (always on) fans from the GL10 parts car I had.  Very nice addition and sounds similar to what you have on your wagon.  I flush my system every couple years with one of the (Prestone I think) kits which you cut the heater hose and add the "T" fitting.  Then you run hose water through it with the heater and fan on high until the water is clear and then even longer ......just for kicks. 

1) Don't mean to offend you, but are you mixing %50/50 coolant and h20?  Because you can buy %100 coolant which must be diluted in order to function as designed.

2) There have been some lengthy and stellar threads on USMB regarding keeping EA82 running cooler and I would highly recommend doing some searching of the archives too for the great info in them. 

Best of luck to you with the issue!  Aaron

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I would recommend against thinning out the antifreeze. Not only does the coolant (ethylene glycol) in the cooling system cool the engine but that coolant also lubricates the water pump. I would go with the recommended ratio of coolant to distilled water.

 

Might want to consider that you could have a head gasket leak.

The coolant does not lubricate the water pump,by the time coolant is getting to the bearings in the water pump,the pump is shot and in need of replacement.

 

The thing with antifreeze is it actually impedes heat transfer,thus making the cooling system worse.100% water would cool better than 100% antifreeze, but water freezes in low temps-hence,antifreeze.A standard 50/50 ratio of antifreeze gives a good compromise between cooling efficiency and freezing protection in a moderate climate.However, in a hot climate like texas that ratio is 25/75 or even down to 10/90.10/90 is just enough antifreeze to inhibit corrosion.I run about a 30% mixture of antifreeze because Lewiston gets HOT in the summer,and even that 30% mixture is enough to prevent the coolant from freezing solid.It might be slush but it still circulates.

Edited by Uberoo
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Interesting info about the hotter climate ratios and distilled water.  The USMB search feature just went into a deep, dark, and stinky, black hole of no responsiveness.....what up with that ......I don't know.  But I found a great Miles Fox video on the subject which is excellent: Cheers All

 

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Oil cooler can also help to cool engine down. There is OEM kit with thermo switch available but seems to be pretty hard to find. Any good quality aftermarket cooler will do also, but they cool oil continuously that isn't probably a problem in higher temperature locations.

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It sounds like your gauge is reading correctly so no need to change in a new sender just yet. Does it run cooler at night ( I am assuming the nights are cooler :) ) I got same with my EA82 running in my EA81 Brumby, hotter the ambient, the hotter it reads on the gauge, and higher speeds on the highway does nothing for cooling things down. I ran an AC condensor in front of the radiator and hooked into the heater hose circuit. Even though it increased my water capacity, did zip to help with cooling. Nearly turned a spare bonnet into a ventilated summer unit as above in Uberoos post.

 

Heat radiates in any direction, but hot air rises btw. Cold can radiate too - usually in my direction :( in cold season now.

 

I also ran 180mm driving lights blocking some air flow up front. Removing them did zip again once warmed up highway speeds.

 

I had both twin core EA81 radiator and single core EA82 radiator - really got no difference ??

 

Next trick will be water spray on rad cores m thinks !

 

It all kept me busy until autumn anyway :) .

 

70% was probably as far as it went on the gauge anyway - figured it was just gonna run hotter but not fatally hotter

Edited by jono
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Warning about Coolant mix ratios, Have you noticed that modern coolants are specced at higher mix ratios between 40% to 50 % that is because like so much Coolant mixes have changed formulae over the years and many modern coolants actually turn corrosive when the mix ratio drops below what the spec is, Bear in mind they do build in some leway in those ratios to cover themselves but topping up coolant with plain or distilled water is a potential recipe for disaster corrosion wise and our engines are all Aluminium.

Corrosion in Alloy Engines is not your friend

Edited by coxy
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Seems there are many ideas in remedying a problem but not fixing it. The OP needs a proper diagnosis IMO.

 

eg replacing a single core radiator with a twin core radiator wont do zip if there is a leaking head gasket.

 

I'm wondering if your radiator is blocked? 

 

I'd visit a radiator builder and ask him to test yours for flow. Eliminate components as you progress.

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What condition is the radiator in? Are the little thin fins still attached to the tubes? Check the flow. Get an Oem or a better grade Stant thermostat. Check that there is no air in the top hose by squeezing it and listen for the giggle pin and gurgles. A pinhole headgasket leak can cause air to never go away. Usually they get worse over time. Best to use distilled water.

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Yes, I agree that the engine needs a proper diagnosis,

 

However, the EA82 engine's cooling system usually is very Weak,

 

So this solution have worked good, if there is No problems with headgaskets,

 

Waterpump or other items:

 

... replacing a single core radiator with a twin core radiator wont do zip if there is a leaking head gasket....

 

Kind Regards.

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This:

 

 The OP needs a proper diagnosis IMO.

 

A properly working cooling system works fine in those conditions.  If it's running hot during normal driving, diagnose and repair the cooling system. Sure, tweak some other things later and play with it if you want, but currently something is wrong and I'd start with that first.

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Sorry for the long wait on a response i got pretty busy, wow that is alot of responses, i am sorry if i don't reply to you. (also i can only do so many quotes on a post, that is why they are broken up into multiple)

 

 

First off, get a OEM thermostat. Aftermarket ones have a smaller internal diameter and may mean the difference in overheating with the already marginal ea82 cooling system.

 

thirdly, in texas heat you can run distilled water for coolant with a small percentage of antifreeze for its anti-corrosion properties.

 

Fourth make sure that your electric fan is actually spinning the correct way.If its mounted in the engine bay it needs to be PULLING air through the radiator.

OEM Subaru thermostat? got it, i got a spare thermostat gasket still new in the package.

Ive been running tap water with antifreeze this whole time, i don't hear bubbling like its boiling but will still give it a try, distilled with antifreeze.

electric fan is throwing air to the engine, or pulling air from the front of the car to the rear, so thats good :)

 

 

 

You must be aware that there are Two types of Radiators for the EA82:

 

The Single-Row ones, and the Double Row Ones.

 

You can change the Single Row for a Double Row Radiator, 

 

And you can use a Lower Temp ThermoSwitch that I found, here:

 

~► http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/125754-easy-guide-on-five-steps-to-twin-electric-fans-swap/

i did not know there are 2 types of radiators for the EA-82 (not counting the plastic crap one), could you inform me on what year or trim levels they were available with the double rows?

also that tempeature switch for the electric fan, mine never worked correctly from the beginning, what could be a down side of always having the electric fan running in summer and winter times?

 

 

Might want to consider that you could have a head gasket leak.

Head Gaskets were replaced 2 years ago by a Subaru Mechanic that has been working on Subarus for over 25+ years. at 188,000miles. 2 years later (today) its at 215,000. Felpro HeadGasket is what he told me that he replaced it with, i think that Felpro gasket is made by Subaru?

Edited by Subasaurus
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I flush my system every couple years with one of the (Prestone I think)

1) Don't mean to offend you, but are you mixing %50/50 coolant and h20?  Because you can buy %100 coolant which must be diluted in order to function as designed.

yes its at 50/50 but not for long :P

and i went to go buy prestone to try something different, see if that helps. was $1 more than the Peak branded one.

 

 

The thing with antifreeze is it actually impedes heat transfer,thus making the cooling system worse.100% water would cool better than 100% antifreeze, but water freezes in low temps-hence,antifreeze.A standard 50/50 ratio of antifreeze gives a good compromise between cooling efficiency and freezing protection in a moderate climate.However, in a hot climate like texas that ratio is 25/75 or even down to 10/90.10/90 is just enough antifreeze to inhibit corrosion.I run about a 30% mixture of antifreeze because Lewiston gets HOT in the summer,and even that 30% mixture is enough to prevent the coolant from freezing solid.It might be slush but it still circulates.

i went to go buy prestone to try something different and turns out the boiling point on the back of the container is actually higher if you do 70% antifreeze and 30%water compared to 50/50, could someone clear this up for me? this is new to me also and im alittle confused, no actually very confused lol. i always thought 70% water and 30% antifreeze would have been better for the heat... (Picture at the bottom)

 

 

 

 

Interesting info about the hotter climate ratios and distilled water.  The USMB search feature just went into a deep, dark, and stinky, black hole of no responsiveness.....what up with that ......I don't know.  But I found a great Miles Fox video on the subject which is excellent: Cheers All

 

Very interesting, thanks for that two85s.

Edited by Subasaurus
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I have heard that using delo extended life coolant helps. Also I replaced my stock electric fan with a ten blade flex-a-lite electric fan, which has helped my engine a lot!

Never heard of it, or seen it. also ive been wanting to go both fans electric but seems that the only choices are toyota prius electric dual radiator fans (Loyale 2.7 Turbo) wrote about it in a thread, or a custom single fan from some shop, any more info on that 10 bladed fan or any fan that fits between the radiator and waterpump would be greatly appreciated!!

 

 

It sounds like your gauge is reading correctly so no need to change in a new sender just yet. Does it run cooler at night ( I am assuming the nights are cooler :) )

higher speeds on the highway does nothing for cooling things down.

Yes it runs cooler once the evil sun goes away or the tempeature goes below 95F.

Highway Speeds actually help my vehicle out some, when im sitting at a light with all these other hot vehicles, that gauge loves to climb (all this only when its above 95F)

 

 

I would go with the lower ratio antifreeze too. I run a 1 to 2 ratio which is roughly 67% water. Have done so for at least the last dozen years on my old Brat if not longer.

but the back of this Prestone Container says 70% antifreeze and 30% Water actually increases its boiling point :( im confused..  (picture at the bottom)

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Warning about Coolant mix ratios, Have you noticed that modern coolants are specced at higher mix ratios between 40% to 50 % that is because like so much Coolant mixes have changed formulae over the years and many modern coolants actually turn corrosive when the mix ratio drops below what the spec is, Bear in mind they do build in some leway in those ratios to cover themselves but topping up coolant with plain or distilled water is a potential recipe for disaster corrosion wise and our engines are all Aluminium.

Corrosion in Alloy Engines is not your friend

Thanks i will look into that.

 

 

replacing a single core radiator with a twin core radiator wont do zip if there is a leaking head gasket.

 

I'm wondering if your radiator is blocked? 

 

I'd visit a radiator builder and ask him to test yours for flow. Eliminate components as you progress.

i don't know if my radiator is blocked but back in march i did a radiator "flush" by putting some water pressure through it for 5 mins and 100PSI of air afterwards for 30 seconds (all this with the radiator pulled out ofcourse) i also did the same inside the engine block, both ways with thermostat removed.

Head Gaskets were replaced 2 years ago at 188,000miles. 2 years later

(today) its at 215,000. Felpro HeadGasket is what he told me that he

replaced it with, i think that Felpro gasket is made by Subaru?

 

 

What condition is the radiator in? Are the little thin fins still attached to the tubes? Check the flow. Get an Oem or a better grade Stant thermostat. Check that there is no air in the top hose by squeezing it and listen for the giggle pin and gurgles. A pinhole headgasket leak can cause air to never go away. Usually they get worse over time. Best to use distilled water.

Besides the creepy bugs stuck to it, 95% of all the fins are fine and not crushed by a bug or something.

About the distilled water, i will switch to that instead of tap water from now on, see if that improves anything.

i also squeeze the radiator hoses (both) for about 5 mins anytime i put new antifreeze in it.

Stant vs Subaru OEM thermostat- which one is better? i will definately change my Beck N Arnley thermostat for one of those 2 since i have a new spare thermostat gasket.

 

 

A properly working cooling system works fine in those conditions.  If it's running hot during normal driving, diagnose and repair the cooling system. Sure, tweak some other things later and play with it if you want, but currently something is wrong and I'd start with that first.

good to know in a way that its not normal :P thanks.

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So to conclude:

1. More info on single and double row radiators and what years and models?

 

2. Boiling point on Prestone Antifreeze is actually higher if i use 70antifreeze/30water, instead of the 50/50, how could this be?

 

3.More info on replacing mechanical clutch fan with an electric one? any ideas are helpful. what have you done?

 

4.Stant vs Subaru OEM thermostat? or any other competitor?

---------------------------------------------------------

This is what i will do in stages if it does not fix my overheating issue.

 

1-Replace Peak antifreeze with prestone (50/50? 70/30? 30/70?)

2-Replace Beck n Arnley thermostat with a better one (which one is that?)

3-Upgrade by removing mechanical fan with an electric one.

4-Upgrading the radiator to a double row

5-Make vents :(

6-Blow a Gasket

---------------------------------------------------------

This is on a normal day on the highway about 85F (city driving actually runs cooler)

IMG_0864_zpsbt5syuul.jpg

 

This is when my cooling system is not so happy, and the needle was actually alittle higher but did not take a picture of it since i was freaking out (hence me stopped at a gas station with engine off for a while then realized i should take a picture of this) i will not duplicate this for obvious reasons..

IMG_0850_zpsbtwb2eln.jpg

 

And this is whats confusing me, i thought lower antifreeze/higher water ratio meant better for fighting the heat.

IMG_0873_zpss5koj5mx.jpg

 

I Appreciate all the quick and awesome responses from all of you, thanks again!

 

-Omar.

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You've said that the fins are straight on your rad, by how clear are they?

I've taken rads out of cars here and you can barely see through them. And that means no air flow, and hence no cooling. If you do want to clear it this way, a garden hose sprayed from back to front will clear it.

 

Is your electric fan kicking in when the temp gets up? Take the sender out of the rad & dunk into a bucket of hot water with a thermometer & a multimeter (or test light) connected across the wires. Leave it in the water until there's no more signal & check the thermometer.

 

Aside for any issues with the engine, if your temp gauge is only going that high, what is the problem? It's not in the red zone yet.

 

Metal tank rads, despite popular belief, aren't better than metal tanked ones. The end tanks get heat soaked & they're not in any airflow to cool them back down again. Plastic is less prone to this absorption (which is why they sometimes get brittle & break).

 

Really, if you've got a perfect system & still have problems (we get this in Aus also as our air temps can be higher than what you've described) is to get a a twin core rad (never avail in Aus ...) or a custom one made with 2 cores. I've run one of those in 100+ temps & didn't realise for a week that my electric fan wasn't plugged in, nor that the viscous fluid in the mech fan was gone :P

 

BTW, have you got a "return" style rad cap which allows coolant to bleed back into the rad when it cools? Otherwise, you're just going to pump the coolant into the overflow bottle & never let it back into the system.

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You've said that the fins are straight on your rad, by how clear are they?

I've taken rads out of cars here and you can barely see through them. And that means no air flow, and hence no cooling. If you do want to clear it this way, a garden hose sprayed from back to front will clear it.

 

Is your electric fan kicking in when the temp gets up? Take the sender out of the rad & dunk into a bucket of hot water with a thermometer & a multimeter (or test light) connected across the wires. Leave it in the water until there's no more signal & check the thermometer.

 

Aside for any issues with the engine, if your temp gauge is only going that high, what is the problem? It's not in the red zone yet.

 

BTW, have you got a "return" style rad cap which allows coolant to bleed back into the rad when it cools? Otherwise, you're just going to pump the coolant into the overflow bottle & never let it back into the system.

forgot to mention, yes when i pulled the radiator out back in march, i sprayed it down with a garden hose, nice and clean, sorry about that!

 

i have discontinued this sender that tells the fan when to kick on, its been rigged to just run all the time for a while now.

 

the problem is i don't know how to do head gaskets because ive never gone that deep in the engine before, deepest was cam shaft with the lifters and rockers ive replaced, head gaskets were the next step but i don't own a torque wrench, and it was on its way to the redline, it got really close. i know the picture seems its only above half, but this was like 10-15min of sitting with the engine off when i took it after it tried overheating on me.

 

return style? i don't know what you mean by this but the coolant reservor tube connects right next to the radiator cap if that answers your question..

Edited by Subasaurus
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