swaggerwagonej22 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) have a very light tick I narrowed down to the rods. it's super light not really a knock. is this at all common? running full synthetic 10 40 and lucus oil stabilizer....any ideas on how long I have before a rebuild? 120k on the clock Edited October 30, 2015 by swaggerwagonej22 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 How did you decide it's the rods? Those motors have hydraulic lifters which, if not perfect, will tick. The injectors also tick a little bit. Lucas oil stabilizer is terrible stuff... Unless the motor has been run low on oil or it has gone tens of thousands of miles without being changed, at 120k the engine should be in fantastic shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swaggerwagonej22 Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 I'm going to get the Lucas out and flush and bleed the lifters and see if that helps. valve covers need resealed anyway. do you think it could be related to timing components? not sure if they have been done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swaggerwagonej22 Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 oh and I heard the noise most promenently under the oil pan through a sterhescope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swaggerwagonej22 Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 stethoscope* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 If the timing belt hasn't been done, it's probably a good idea. Not only is it overdue for mileage, it's WAY overdue on time. Old bearings and rubber get tired. My 96 had 92k miles on it when the waterpump seized and shredded the timing belt. Fortunately 96 and earlier doesn't mash pistons into valves.... But yea, interference or not, it'll interfere with your day. It probably isn't your timing stuff causing a ticking, though... How loud are we talking here? Like a serious knock, or a faint tick tick tick noise? Because if it's a faint tick, ehhhh it's a subaru, it's a 2.2, they make sounds and it's fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swaggerwagonej22 Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 wouldn't really call it a knock, and it didnt get louder with rpm increase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swaggerwagonej22 Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 but it sounded like one specific thing. not like the rest of the little lifter ticks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swaggerwagonej22 Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 best way to describe would be like the tick of an exhaust manifold leak (which I confirmed it is not an exhaust leak) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Have you made sure it isn't a rattling heat shield? It doesn't sound like rod knock to me. Usually that starts when the engine is warmed up under part throttle between 2500 and 3500 rpm and progresses to a really gnarly noise at idle that definitely does change at idle. When rod knock is first starting it won't be there on a cold start because the oil is thicker. I wouldn't worry about it, to be honest. It's a low mileage 2.2, it has a ton of life left in it. If you're really worried, send an oil sample to a company like blackstone for analysis. They analyze the oil and can tell how much of what metals are in it, this can give you a good idea on the life of the engine. When they tell you to extend your oil change interval, ignore them. Keep doing it at around 4500 for synthetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swaggerwagonej22 Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 it doesn't always do it. could be a hest shield after trying to reuse them off an after market converter. that's a good lead. thanks. will be in touch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swaggerwagonej22 Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 it doesn't always do it. could be a hest shield after trying to reuse them off an after market converter. that's a good lead. thanks. will be in touch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Just do the lifters and switch to a less stressful oil. 10 40 is rather heavy for a daily driver not in the desert. It actually hurts MPG and causes more strain as the engine has to work harder to pump it in temps that are average; it's designed more for really hot temps; guys with high hp race engines might run it or 50 but that's a different ball game from a Japanese tight-tolerance engine. If you have colder winters, you definitely don't want it. Also, the rocker oil feed and lifter clearances are rather tight and that feed hole will NOT open up over time. Just run recommended oil. Also, the last guy in here about a week ago complaining about noise IIRC was also running a heavier weight. For what it's worth, been running 10w 30 FULL synthetic Valvoline and engine is quiet with exception to occasional tensioner noise at start-up, but this is because the tensioner is old and wasn't replaced during last belt job as it wasn't noisy then when it should have just been replaced. When doing the lifters, make SURE all the black tarnish gunk is expelled. If any lifters are NOT fully pumped (will be very difficult to press w/o touching the ball check valve) "pull" the hat up then try bleeding. Can even run a a diluted amounted of a degreaser into it if really bad. I found using a cap from a 5 qt bottle worked great, though any cap large enough to submerge the lifter and give room to get fingers around it is preferred. Empty the cap for EACH lifter so only FRESH oil enters and when pumping it, don't allow it to pull the black swirls in. One lifter will be enough to darken a cap full of fresh oil. Once cleaned, bled, pumped, drop in 1ltr bottle with oil or similar. Takes about an hour to do all 16 if you are motivated, even if first time assuming everything is in front of you. BTW, be SURE to cleaner the rocker out. The feed hole mentioned above in them can clog and/or become restricted over time. Clean with degreaser and make sure hole has any varnish or sludge cleared then wipe down. Pour a small amount of oil into the rocker cavity the lifter slides into, then press lifter in.Oil will squirt out the hole like a squirt gun. Do this several times and compare the flow of that hole to the others. It should be a consistent flow across all of them. If not, find out what's blocking it. When ready to reattach the rocker assembler and insert lifters, don't forget to fill each hole with clean oil then insert lifter, and don't forget to properly prime the engine (do NOT just start it). Oil added to lifter holes (and even a small coating to cam lobes) during the engine prime will reduce metal on metal. Worse case you'll have really healthy lifters that make almost no noise or it'll rule them out altogether as it leaves the timing belt tensioner to check. I did my lifters around 2 years ago and it's still quiet at idle and they don't seem to collapse either if the car sits 5 days whereas before they'd be REALLY noisy after sitting 8 hours. I actually had to replace basically all of them from a lower mileage unit that also had the gunk inside them, but they pumped back up firmly after being 50% collapsed or were already firm even after sitting the junk yard engine. I can also hear my injectors over them they are so quiet. What's interesting is many Subaru engine videos have very noisy lifters and the owners are completely oblivious- even guys running modded (used) engines in VW swaps, etc. Edited October 31, 2015 by Bushwick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtokesalot Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 possibly piston slap? a friend of mines subaru has this and lucas made it louder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) Piston or rod issues should change with frequency of sound at different RPM, and won't get better. Meaning it'll knock quicker with more revs if it's an actual bottom-end issue. Only engine I remember developing a true knock that could go thousands of miles on said knock was the old Buick 4 banger found in the 80's in cars like the Skyhawk. Friend had one and knocked like a diesel. Was apparently a wrist pin issue but engine somehow could tolerate it. Also, if you are getting metal on metal whether from damaged bearings or rings, you should have metal in the oil and oil filter, and will probably have excessive oil consumption and dropped compression, etc. Edited November 1, 2015 by Bushwick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingcars1972 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I just bought a'95 impreza with a 2.2 with atomatic for wife and it has a slight ticking noise coming from passenger side top end and that is how I found this message board looking online for possible answers to what is causing it. Last Subaru I owned was a'79 BRAT that I drove for about five years in mid eighties until I met my wife and she was pregnant with our first, so we needed more than two seats! The'79 BRAT never had any engine issues so I never had to work on it and never learned much about Subaru engines. I am wondering if anyone has advice on where to start looking for what is causing this ticking noise. I just bought it yesterday 3-2-2017 and haven't even had a chance to change the oil and filter. I see that a lot of people are using/reccomending 10W-30 full synthetic and not using oil additives like Lucas. Are Subaru engines different in some way than say Japanese motorcycle engines or American made V-8's? I have used Lucas oil additives for over 20 years now in all of my Japanese crotch rockets (Honda's, Kawasaki's and Yamaha's) and in Chrysler and Chevy small and big blocks with all lasting for many years of racing abuse so I know damned well that Lucas IS NOT "terrible stuff" ! But I am not going to use it in this Subaru if people have experienced problems with it in their Subaru's! It sounds to me like people are using too high of viscosity oil with an oil additive that increased the viscosity rating of the oil they are using. I was told by a local self proclaimed Subaru expert that "somewhere around '95 the 2.2 went to solid lifters. If that is correct I'm hoping maybe it's just a rocker adjustment fix. What should I be looking for besides a shop manual to learn as much as I can about this engine before trying to self diagnose or fix whatever is causing the ticking? I am reading a lot of peoples posts here that would indicate a slight ticking noise coming from this Subaru engine is not really an issue and should be expected. Car has 202k on odometer but is in really good shape and has a notebook in glove box with a record of all oil and filter changes and regular maintenance from time it was new so I don't think regular maintenance or abuse is the issue. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) Start with an oil change - 10w30 is fine but just get the standard oil. Do not run synthetic. These motors seem happiest on cheap oil and frequent changes. (3000-3500 miles) Fresh oil quiets them down a lot most of the time. These motors had hydraulic lash adjusters until 97 when they switched. This is likely the tapping. They are very noisy after sitting for a while or if oil is too thin/low. A few days of driving on a fresh oil change should yield a noticeable reduction in noise. you'll notice it will get louder again after sitting a while or on cold mornings. These motors are tappy - especially as they get up there in miles. If it doesn't go away after this, get a video so we can take a listen. But very likely it's just the HLAs. Done a number of motor swaps and a junkyard motor sitting drained of oil for a few months - you'd swear it had a rod knock or piston slap or something. A few hours driving and they purr. Edited March 3, 2017 by AdventureSubaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I have a 95' Legacy with the 2.2L i.e. ej22. One of the better engines as it's not interference, everything is a breeze to get at, runs forever, parts cost nothing, etc. When I got mine, I think all but 2 lifters were dropped. Most just said "rev it" or "drive it", it'll go away. Well it didn't go away, and it's a known issue with these engines. We have hydraulic lifters in the 95' ej22 and these shouldn't have solid lifters in them so your friend was mistaken. When I say all but 2 were dropped, ONLY 2 lifters were able to hold firm. Anyhow, the RIGHT way to fix this is pull the valve cover, unbolt the rocker arm assembly, and remove each lifter. They are very small, but easy to tell if it's collapsed. You can try pulling on the plunger with your fingers, it might free up. If it does, get a small cap (a coolant jug cap works great) or cut a plastic cup bottom off. Fill with FRESH oil. Drop the lifter in. Make sure it's drawing the oil in when pulling the plunger. If it does, take a small pick and carefully depress the tiny ball valve while pressing the plunger down simultaneously. You SHOULD be squirting the oil back out, but it'll be pitch black, which is the gunk causing it to stick. Repeat a couple times more making SURE you are NOT pulling the black gunk back into the lifter. After 2-3 bleeds, the oil needs dumped from the cap and filled once more with fresh as it'll likely be filthy. Keep repeating this process until the black gunk stops exiting the lifter and only clear exits. Have something like a cup or plastic bottle bottom with about 3/4" FRESH oil in it, and drop the lifter in their after it's fully bled and pumped (lifter needs to remain submerged). Now repeat the process the process for ALL the lifters (do lifters from both heads and you'll have less issues later, though you can do one side at a time). Takes about 5 minutes to do each lifter and roughly an hour for all of them, and is an extremely easy job to do with minimal tools, just make sure rockers go back in the way they came out. You might as well drop $15 (or whatever they run, they are cheap) for new valve cover gaskets as they like to leak on these. Apply small amount of sealant to both sides of gasket after removing all traces of oil from gasket surfaces. Also, it's smart to clean the rocker assembly's lifter oil holes out. Each cavity the lifter sits in, has a tiny oil feed hole (think of a flower pot with a single drain hole in the bottom). Pour a small amount of fresh oil in the cavity, then press the lifter in. The lifter will act just like a syringe, and force oil out the cavity hole. If it's blocked or most have heavy varnish, need to clean that hole then apply the oil. Oil should squirt evenly out the hole just like it was coming out a syringe w/o the needle on the end. EVERY lifter will need oil IN the cavities as it'll guarantee they have enough around them during initial start up. It might sound like a lot of work, but it's actually extremely easy and straight-forward. Think there's roughly 3 bolts on the valve covers, and something like 6 or 8 bolts holding the rocker assembly in place. That's it. If it ends up like mine was, where nothing was bringing those lifters back to life, try a junk yard. I think my donors were from a 96'. It had roughly 20k miles LESS, and most were still pumped, with no blemishes on the surface. The girl at the junk yard working the counter saw the handful of tiny lifters and said "no charge", so they were legitimately free. Most places expect to pay maybe a dollar each. Brand new lifters is an option, though I think they run something $8-10 each, which can add up quickly. I still had each pumped and bled until only fresh oil exited. And despite being from a different engine, they worked perfectly, and roughly 3 years later and nearly 25k miles, they still don't make any noises. I've seen lots of ej swap vids were the donor ticks like a diesel and people think that's "normal" Also, I run 10w30 FULL synthetic and have yet to see any negatives from it. There's enough proof synthetic is better than conventional, especially with start up lubrication and longevity. Your choice, but why risk it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingcars1972 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Thanks for the info' will definitely start with the lifter and rocker inspection and cleaning procedure Bushwick. It sure sounds like it will be easy to work on! Hopefully it will be a good little work car for the wife. How hard is it to change the timing belt? It looks like it's really easy to get to but are there any special tools or procedures required making it more difficult than it appears? I sure wish I had my'79 BRAT back again! But if I knew then what I know now I'd be rich because of the Hemi Road Runners and Chargers I've owned and sold because I was hurting for money or simply got bored with. The last time I saw my BRAT it was purchased by a golf coarse and modified to pick up golf balls on their driving range because it could go places that their tractors couldn't go without getting stuck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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