LovemyGLWGN Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 My wagon just dropped me at the side of the road, 2 days ago. Just stopped moving. It would crank, had lights, power, all systems seemed to be OK, but wouldn't restart. I assumed timing belts, as my '92 did what seemed to be the exact same thing to me in 1999, but something else is going on... Had a local (good) shop pick it up, and we both thought timing belts, but he told me he can't move the crankshaft. He also said one belt was off, but not broken. I am going over on Monday or Tuesday to look at it and find out more, but we're all confused a bit. I will need to try to determine if it is froze, or if something else is happening. This guy made a slight 'suggestion' that .."maybe I should consider replacing the engine", and I about freaked. We have no idea yet what is going on! Not time to consider a replacement! Any possible ideas welcomed. Questions going through my mind are: did the crank stopping cause the timing belt to slip off, or was belt loose and something else (dist) is causing problem... Not even sure what to start eliminating as source. Thanks much, LovemyGLWGN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Well, with the distributor side belt off, it won't start. The other side, it might run really crappy. I don't know why it would be frozen, without a bunch of other typical severe overheat symptoms. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Someone needs to explain to me how one one hand, the engine cranks, and on the other, the crankshaft doesn't move. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Someone needs to explain to me how one one hand, the engine cranks, and on the other, the crankshaft doesn't move.Hm it's an enigma. Maybe if it's an MT the mechanic is trying to turn the crank in gear for some reason? Sounds like mechanic is eager to replace the engine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 maybe engine would crank when it stopped on the roadside, and now in the shop having cooled down (either from operating temp or higher?} wont turn now. If it was a siezed distributor you fear it must be the other side timing belt that came loose ? Only once have heard of an EA82 with valves hitting pistons with belt coming off - modified beyond factory that must have been ! Can you confirm that your oil pressure light was working before, did not come on at least until engine stopped, and that engine was quiet right up to stop ? You are not deaf , and feel you have normal range of hearing ? Replacing the engine may be cheaper than spending many mechanic hour$ chasing a diagnosis to then find needs replacing. Did you check your fluids see anything odd ? Teeeth missing off the belt that was off or loose ? which belt was loose? that cam turn ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovemyGLWGN Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 maybe engine would crank when it stopped on the roadside, and now in the shop having cooled down (either from operating temp or higher?} wont turn now. If it was a siezed distributor you fear it must be the other side timing belt that came loose ? Only once have heard of an EA82 with valves hitting pistons with belt coming off - modified beyond factory that must have been ! Can you confirm that your oil pressure light was working before, did not come on at least until engine stopped, and that engine was quiet right up to stop ? You are not deaf , and feel you have normal range of hearing ? Replacing the engine may be cheaper than spending many mechanic hour$ chasing a diagnosis to then find needs replacing. Did you check your fluids see anything odd ? Teeeth missing off the belt that was off or loose ? which belt was loose? that cam turn ? I can. It was not hot, was absolutely quiet, and I always have my 'antennas' on duty! I am constantly checking all temp readings, oil pressure readings, all of those, constantly. It just happens to be something I glance at and do a quick once over on, constantly... I will know more tomorrow, as to the rest of your questions, and I appreciate what to look for when I get to my car! It also had NO symptoms of overheating, hoses not stretched out..., no steam, will know more omorrow or tuesday, when I see it. As to paying a mechanic hours to chase around, hunting, I will bring it home and tear it down myself first. He said both cams turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovemyGLWGN Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Someone needs to explain to me how one one hand, the engine cranks, and on the other, the crankshaft doesn't move. I have no idea, as there was no symptoms of overheating and no noise. It DID hesitate severely, just before it quit. Felt like a team of horses couldn't make it go 2 feet, for about 4 seconds before it quit. Hmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovemyGLWGN Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Well, with the distributor side belt off, it won't start. The other side, it might run really crappy. I don't know why it would be frozen, without a bunch of other typical severe overheat symptoms. Me either. NO overheating symptoms... would a front seal, or anything else, like a ??? bearing be able to make it quit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 A seal couldn't stop the engine. A bearing seize up could, but I've never heard of a bearing seizing without loosing oil or overheat. And it wouldn't have cranked immediately after it quit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovemyGLWGN Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 A seal couldn't stop the engine. A bearing seize up could, but I've never heard of a bearing seizing without loosing oil or overheat. And it wouldn't have cranked immediately after it quit. Dave, still going over this thing in my mind, before I see it. My Subaru was towed about 10-12 miles, by the Service Station, by a chain. It is an '88 5 speed, and it has full time 2WD unless it is put into 4x. Could the towing have hurt anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovemyGLWGN Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 What about a crank pulley? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovemyGLWGN Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Dave, still going over this thing in my mind, before I see it. My Subaru was towed about 10-12 miles, by the Service Station, by a chain. It is an '88 5 speed, and it has full time 2WD unless it is put into 4x. Could the towing have hurt anything? We pulled the oil pan, as a quick 'look' into engine, oil pan is full of metal. Will possibly look for a replacement engine, and bring my baby home.. I'll need to tear into it here, as soon as it is warmer than 30* outside! Right now, I am on foot, and my other backup waiting on fuel pump. I want to know what did what! Inquiring minds need to know, and it might save somebody else the same heartache! Guess this topic is closed for now, and will post later this spring when I have torn it down and found out what did what. Thanks for all replies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Oh, wow. That sucks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 So strange... if you lost oil pressure, it would have been noisy - the lifter ticking would have been obvious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 That's crazy. I'm assuming it won't crank anymore? Was it in gear when it was pulled? It could have seized during the tow if the engine was turning AND the timing belt was broke because then the oil pump wouldn't have been pumping... Just a thought. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobiedubie Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Do a compression test on all of the cylinders, in order to determine if you now have one with a shattered valve. Had you not had the metal in the pan, I would have guessed either the coil or the distributor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovemyGLWGN Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 That's crazy. I'm assuming it won't crank anymore? Was it in gear when it was pulled? It could have seized during the tow if the engine was turning AND the timing belt was broke because then the oil pump wouldn't have been pumping... Just a thought. Geez... I'm rather speechless.. can't turn the crank, metal in the pan, and what happened was exactly as I described it happening. The ONLY thing that was odd was just before it quit, honestly felt like a mule team of horses couldn't have pulled it up that hill, for a whole 3-4 seconds before it quit... but no noises, no overheating, nothing. I did have it over to (a different) mechanic though last month, twice, because it would 'hesitate', no power at starting out lower RPM's. we did a tune-up, but he was picking straws, I believe. I had him test drive it, but he said he couldn't really feel anything, but then, I drive it all the time. I insisted it wasn't right, and he searched more, and came up with a backed out/loose plug. So we did the tune-up, which overall gave it a hair more zip, but hesitation was still there. Was going to take it back next month, as I really couldn't afford any more hunting this month... I would tend to believe the shop that pulled it off the highway would have put it into neutral, after numerous conversations with them, they are quite savvy- by far not 'garage parts hangers'. I'm just numb right now, and need to get it home and need to look inside that engine. I'm not a mechanical dummy (girl), but I am old(er), and reached a point where I no longer kept my own tools around for things like pulling tranny's and motors, and quit doing my own brakes, etc., but crap! I knew SOMETHING wasn't right... Crap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovemyGLWGN Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 Do a compression test on all of the cylinders, in order to determine if you now have one with a shattered valve. Had you not had the metal in the pan, I would have guessed either the coil or the distributor. Thanks for that idea! I have a 3-5 day wait for the fuel pump on my '87 Jeep, before I even have transportation again, am sitting home till then! I'll ask him to do that for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Won't be able to do compression test if crank won't turn. But, air can be put to the cylinders thru the spark plug holes. Basically a leak down test. May have to turn cams by hand to insure the valves are closed for each cylinder. Part that confuses me is, you said it would crank over at first, now crank won't turn. Maybe, broke t-belt has fouled itself around the crank pulley and has crank bound up. Seen other drive belts do that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Oh, yes. I had a timing belt wrap itself around it's crank pully. It was stuck pretty good. But the metal in the pan still isn't good. I definitely want to know what you find inside. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovemyGLWGN Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 Won't be able to do compression test if crank won't turn. But, air can be put to the cylinders thru the spark plug holes. Basically a leak down test. May have to turn cams by hand to insure the valves are closed for each cylinder. Part that confuses me is, you said it would crank over at first, now crank won't turn. Maybe, broke t-belt has fouled itself around the crank pulley and has crank bound up. Seen other drive belts do that. I have been wondering if it could do that... which is why I said 'crank pulley'? above. Problem here right now, is I can't get to it... need A set of wheels, and that won't be until Friday or Monday... we have one '87 Toyota truck still running, and it's been having some problems lately... geez... was going to go for a lift for my Subaru next!! Guess it'll have to wait! Looks like I'll have to 'unretire' myself, and do my own mechanic-ing for awhile. I really want to see what it did, and see if I can fix it, and even if I replace this engine, I want to build this one and sit it here then... assuming it is rebuildable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovemyGLWGN Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) There is an engine on ebay... but if I go there, I would want to know it lines up and is viable... here is the link. Also,colemanapp said to try K&M in Columbia, Mo., they had one.. Oh, the link... http://www.ebay.com/itm/331696265023?euid=04ea06ec706d415ab94f121596e20e8d&cp=1&exe=13453&ext=34391&sojTags=exe=exe,ext=ext Edited January 12, 2016 by LovemyGLWGN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovemyGLWGN Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 Thanks to a member here, colemanapp, there is an '89 over by Joplin. complete vehicle, but rusted out pretty bad, the owner said. It is a turbo. How might that wire up with this wiring harness? The owner said that wiring harness has been modified, it appears, a couple of times. The price is right, though, but owner says it misses, and he would recommend we trailer it. They are about 4 hrs. from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Neither of those engines are a direct swap into your vehicle. Different wiring and ECU for both. Then the Turbo one has different exhaust from engine back to the mid-pipe connection. The E-Bay engine would/could be a good short block, just swap your heads, cams, intake manifold over. Providing those parts are still viable. Be interesting to see the autopsy report of your current engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 +1 what Tom wrote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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