Tony Cortado Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Heya Folks! I've recently acquired a gorgeous 1993 Loyale, a delicious bucket of rust, that's probably been the best car I've ever purchased -- and my very first Subaru! The issues I can deal with and fix are numerous, I just replaced the axles myself, properly torquing the castle nut. Now I'm getting a squeaky / rattling sound coming from the front passenger wheel area. It happens most of the time, but always under acceleration and higher torque. I didn't notice it for a while until I drove through a forest, the trees helped the sound echo back into the car. I took my audio recorder so you guys can hear it. Though it seems like the sound goes away when I use the clutch (there is one instance of this in the recording), it does happen regardless of the clutch being depressed. I had a look and noticed that the caliper piston boot is a little rough, and the brakes drag a little (a little humming noise) when I make a left going over 35 mph. Otherwise, everything seems "okay." ZOOM0013.MP3A Any ideas? Thanks for your thoughts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Dawg Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I willing to bet it's a wheel bearing. Key word was when turning... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee2 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I willing to bet it's a wheel bearing. Key word was when turning... +1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cortado Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) The squeak happens all the time, not only when turning. It happens loudest under torque, like when accelerating, going uphill, or after downshifting. It doesn't always happen when turning, and it doesn't always happen when driving forward. It's intermittent. I don't have any play in that wheel, 12 / 6 o'clock position, and both the driver and passenger side are of equal temperature when driving (fast, long distance, bumpy dirt roads, etc.). The humming noise is definitely the brake dragging a little (need to replace the brake caliper), there's no brake-scraping sound when I remove the brake, and the wheel rotates freely. I'm not ruling out the bearing -- I mean, there are only a few things that it could be, right? Edited August 2, 2017 by Tony Cortado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee2 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 You might try over torqueing the axle nut a little. I did for mine to stop excess noise and it helped. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 fix the known brake issue first and check both sides for that same issue. Wheel bearings routinely fail without play or temp symptoms on Subarus. Really annoying to diagnose sometimes. Noise under toque/load is usually an inner axle joint issue but yours doesn't seem like this Nia the case being a "squeak" and always making the noise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cortado Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 Thanks everyone for the replies! I'll head to town next week, a 5 hour drive. I'll pick up a hoard of parts. May as well ... Go to town, haha. Parts to replace will be: both front rotors, both front calipers, both front bearings. I already have one spare front bearing set, so I'll replace the squeaky one, front pass, in a day or two. I'll double check that I'm not missin any nuts and bolts, double check torque on the castle nut (I'll try over torquing) and report back if the squeak goes away. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsyme Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Answer: Caliper Guide Pin or Caliper rod pins (4) two per side. Definitely torque down the axle nut to prescribed foot pounds- no question about it. I think all those parts are good. But I call that a shotgun approach instead of a laser or rifle shot for the one thing that actually defective. It's great for hunting birds, but terrible for keeping costs down, and I don't think that will even fix your trouble / noise. I think the one thing you haven't mentioned is either an unlubricated or otherwise defective caliper pins and/or pin boots. Maybe purchase all those other parts on your shopping list, but keep them in the bag with the receipt handy, ready for return. As you know the Caliper brake body needs to "float" on the rotor. I don't think your calipers are bad necessary based on your description. Recall that the caliper is threaded: it twists out and twists back in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cortado Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) Answer: Caliper Guide Pin or Caliper rod pins (4) two per side. Definitely torque down the axle nut to prescribed foot pounds- no question about it. I think all those parts are good. But I call that a shotgun approach instead of a laser or rifle shot for the one thing that actually defective. It's great for hunting birds, but terrible for keeping costs down, and I don't think that will even fix your trouble / noise. I think the one thing you haven't mentioned is either an unlubricated or otherwise defective caliper pins and/or pin boots. Maybe purchase all those other parts on your shopping list, but keep them in the bag with the receipt handy, ready for return. As you know the Caliper brake body needs to "float" on the rotor. I don't think your calipers are bad necessary based on your description. Recall that the caliper is threaded: it twists out and twists back . I didn't even think / realize about the caliper pin lube. I remember seeing that the caliper pin boots look good, and even make a nice "POP" sound when I slide the caliper off, so I assume there is still a nice seal. I do wipe off the misc brake dust, dirt, and rust that falls onto the pins when I have (many times), tried to find the source of the sound, but not lubed it up, so this could certainly be the source of the sound I recorded. Unfortunately the store near me doesn't have any non-oil/petroleum high temp greases in stock aside from some graphite stuff they say will work ("American Grease Stick Co. Graphite Extra Fine Powdered"). I don't know about using that, though. Gonna see what I can find after I get off work, but that's the only one store near me, hah! Question about the caliper pistons: when turning the pistons to draw them back into the caliper, should it be pretty difficult or pretty easy? I use pliers because I don't have the "special tool" that looks like a stunted street key. On the drivers side I have to use all my might to turn the caliper back in, and the passenger side (with the torn boot) is pretty easy. Thanks again for all your help, everyone! I'm looking forward to have a perfectly running Subi by the end of the summer, at the hands of a Youtube / "Armchair" Mechanic (myself) Edited August 2, 2017 by Tony Cortado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee2 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Mine were difficult to turn in and I had to buy a key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Grease - use Sil glyde. Shops I know use the purple permatex (not that green stuff, that's awfully low grade at least around here) and I'd run it bass on their recommendation. Sil Glyde is so good I don't bother trying anything else. I wouldn't call tight or loose calipers a diagnosis of anything, I'm not sure what makes one worse than another to turn but I've never seen it correlate with future issues so I'd hesitate to suggest that alone means anything. they usually seem tight to me to get in. I have the special tool and it often slips off due to being tight. Its not indicative of a specific issue though. If I had to guess maybe it's more of a function of the bore seal and fluid movement within a closed/semi-closed system. It's been a couple years but I feel like the ones I rebuild off the vehicle go in with less effort as they're not pushing against any fluids or system components. I've left torn boots for years without issues, may depend how much northeast salt it sees and gets in it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsyme Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 seach ebay for "21pcs Universal Disc Brake Caliper Wind Back Tool Set" ~ $20 USD search amazon for "Drive Disc Brake Piston Tool" ~ $9.00USD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cortado Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) New Mid Work Update: I checked out and took apart the front pass hub assembly. Definitely need that lube on the caliper slide pins. I decided to go ahead and (attempt to) punch out the bearings, which took way longer than expected -- in fact, the inner bearing is in there pretty good, so I'm going to have to take it to a friend that has some extra tools to help pull that bearing. Good lord, I hammered away with a giant socket for .... 2 hours? I'm sure the neighbors weren't happy about it. I attached photos of a few things -- first, photo is the caliper piston and torn boot. Then the caliper slide pin boot. Next are the brakes. I put them on probably 60 to 100 miles ago. The inside brake seems to have a gouge already. The outside brake looks ok, but I think it's wearing a little uneven. For point of view, the outside brake is upside down in the photo, and the inside brake is right side up (not rotated). Followed by the axle / spline. There was some red dust that came out when I removed the rotor. I assume it was rust, but I am not positive. You can see the red on the splines. Axle removed, you see the outer seal and bearing, followed by the opposite inner seal and bearing (all the particles were a result of the operation, and were not inside the bearing). Outer bearing out of the knuckle. Oil seal looks fantastic (not pictured). I couldn't get the inner bearing out, so I'm headed to the bus mechanic shop at the national park nearby where I have some friends working. With their proper tools, I should easily get the old bearing out and new seals and bearings in. I had to borrow my girlfriend's truck to get to work. Yep, I got the Subaru, she has the 1994 4wd pick up. Any thoughts on these photos? Edited August 3, 2017 by Tony Cortado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cortado Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 last photos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cortado Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 (edited) Got the bearing replaced, thank goodness for friends in high places, I was able to use bigger beefier hammers and c-clamps, and I got some silicon lube for the caliper rod. The squeaky sound I recorded in the original post is gone, but the brake drag sound still exists on either side when I turn. Once I'm back from a short road trip, assuming the brakes don't catch fire , I'll try to figure out why that is happening. Thanks, everyone for your responses! Edited August 4, 2017 by Tony Cortado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Dawg Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Goodtimes Man! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdweninger Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Did you replace the inner and outer bearing seals? You can rebuild those pistons ... the kits are like $5 (seals and boots) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Check the parking brake adjustment also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cortado Posted September 1, 2017 Author Share Posted September 1, 2017 (edited) Wowzer. I got some new rotors and calipers to fix the front end brake drag -- comparing the rotors old and new, I see a huge difference. The new rotors really clean up the driving, so much, I'm going to go ahead and return the calipers. When I did the bearings, I did replace the seals as well. Photos soon! in 18 days I'll embark on a 3600+ mile road trip from Alaska to Southern California! Hoping my Loyale with 235k miles will make it Edited September 1, 2017 by Tony Cortado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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