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Nickoli

Weird squeal when disengaging clutch under load

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85 gl wagon, weberized, dr 4wd

 

About 5k miles ago she stated making a high pitch squeal when disengaging the clutch if I tried to give it gas right away. It only lasted until the gears engaged. It did it when shifting between all gears, but the worst from 1st to 2nd. Sometimes it would do it even if I matched rpms and double clutched. A lot less frequent if I shifted carefully though. Squealed on almost every engine brake and downshift unless I was at very low rpms. No other clutch related issues, no slipping, but the clutch is of unknown age and the pilot bearing whines sometimes so I just figured I'd replace it. I also got a new tranny shaft bearing, and have just been waiting to put them all in, driving it carefully.

 

That was my problem, here is my current situation and question. I drove it down to Florida from Colorado just after the squeal started happening, and finally got around to a tuneup yesterday. Bumped my timing up to ~20--I had been getting pinging on the way down to Florida so I retarded it a little--leaned out the weber, dropped the idle, and seafoamed the carb/pcv vacuum hose. Lots of smoke from the seafoam, obviously running a ton better as to be expected.

 

Now, today on my drive to work, no squeal between 1st and second, no squeal when I engine brake. No squeal. Is there something that would squeal when engaging gears that the seafoam would have fixed?!? I'm so baffled, but so pleased that it's gone. Just wondering if someone has any opinion on what it could've been?

Edited by Nickoli
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Also had minor squeal again today, but obviously the engine running smoother has helped it, which makes the belt much more likely!

 

Wow you guys rock, how did I not think about the fan belt. I guess it's being put under a different load when the clutch disengages. Makes sense. That makes me happy if it's that and not a tranny bearing.

 

Putting my spare on today to give it a go!

 

Would it be more likely that it squeals if it's too tight or too loose?

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its either too loose or the V belt has literally run out of tread and is now slipping,

 

--if you're trying to get by for a few more days, try putting some belt dressing on it..

Edited by Subasaurus

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Belt dressing, check.

 

How do you guys set the tension on your accessory belt? Just lift the alternator by hand and tighten it down? How tight is too much tension? I've kind of always wondered...

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Belt dressing, check.

 

How do you guys set the tension on your accessory belt? Just lift the alternator by hand and tighten it down? How tight is too much tension? I've kind of always wondered...

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After you set it, try to turn the alternator fan by hand.  If it slips, it's too loose.

You want it just tight enough that you can't slip it.

If the engine isn't on a compression stroke, the crank might turn a little.

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Belt dressing, check.

 

How do you guys set the tension on your accessory belt? Just lift the alternator by hand and tighten it down? How tight is too much tension? I've kind of always wondered...

 You can see many examples of how to do it.  Check youtube or google it.

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I set mine with about 20mm deflection up and down in the middle of the belt... eg just tight enough not to slip. If you run belts too tight they'll kill your altenator inside 3 weeks.

 

New belts are like 20 bucks and cheap insutance. Get gates brand ones. Cheers.

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Woah. In searching alternator belt threads, I just realized most EA82s run two belts. Both that I've owned have manual steering and no AC. I've always used one belt. Tensioning one with the idler sounds rough comparitavely.

 

Also seems like people without AC and with manual steering don't have issues with running only one belt. Gonna stick with it.

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Bleh. This is driving me insane. Roughed up and cleaned all three pulleys, new belt that seats correctly and is the right length, still a squeal when I downshift or shift at high rpm between 1st and 2nd mostly.

 

Used pulleys from subasaurus, cleaned them, another new belt, still a squeal every once in a while...

 

I just used a pipe to pry the alt up and got it as tight as I ever have, not test driving it tonight but if it still squeals tomorrow I'm out of ideas. I can definitely hear it coming from the alt side and the center off the crank I'm assuming, and it gets better when I get it nice and tight and put the new belt on, but it has never gone away completely.

 

It all started when I put a v belt on that was too big, and ran it for ~3k miles. I really assumed new pulleys would fix it for good this time..

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Maybe it is the throughout bearing in the MT.

Test this:

remove the belts.

rev the engine.

if it still squeaks then is is not the belts or pulleys.

it may not be the TO bearing.

but is do love tests.

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Are your pulleys lined up dead square ? My brumby had the idler pulley installed back to front when I got it, squealed its rump roast off cos the idler was 1/4" out of line.

 

New gates belt and idler the right way around sorted it.

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Unfortunately it doesn't sound at idle or when stationary and revving the engine with or without belts, no squeal.

 

At the moment it's only happening at the exact point the clutch disengages between 1st and 2nd, or when going from reverse to first. Maybe it is clutch/bearing related after all, but replacing the belt and togtening it helped quite a bit, but didn't fix it--it used to do it between all gears. That led me to believe I was on the right track.

 

Pulleys are straight and the belt tracks perfectly with no flop.

 

I'm hesitant to get it too tight, but prying the alt up with a pipe has it almost eliminated. Maybe my alternator isn't staying tight the whole time. Or something.

Edited by Nickoli

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keep in mind, after loosening it and tightening up the alternator lock bolt so many times, it actually began to strip on me and i had to chase that same squeal that you're probably experiencing, what i did was drilled the onboard threads on the alternator, then ran a grade 9 bolt through with a nut on the other end and tightened it up with 2 new washers inbetween since the bolt was pretty close to squeezing through the slit. i don't know if you have to go grade 9 on it, but i used a random bolt i had and the heat and cold sheered it off in the middle of driving and demolished my Green Stripe Gates Belt when it fell off into the fan.

 

but before drilling the alternator threads, try finding a nut that threads behind it and work with it, tighten it up pretty good after tightening the alternator belt with a breakerbar/cheaterbar that i used to just stick between the A/C compressor and Alternator. its really awkward to do by yourself, but it is possible, you just have to grow another hand out of your body.

 

also try buying a Gates Green Stripe Belt, and make sure it is Green Stripe! you will probably have to order it and wait a few days for it.

the reason for the green stripe is because it has belt dressing already on it, but for some reason, this one lasts wayyy longer and its of better stuff than a can of belt dressing you just slap on a belt, its alittle pricey at $18-24 dollars for one belt, but that fixed my squealing issue when accelerating hard.

Edited by Subasaurus

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Hmmm thanks for the suggestions subasaurus! What baffles me is that I've never had to tighten my alt belt with anything but my arm pulling up on it, and have never had this squeal. Could getting it too rtght also lead to it squealing? It only happened on hard downshifts and between first and second today. So annoying.

 

I also tried running the belt on the outside pulley groove instead of the inside one, no difference. I thought about trying two belts but it didn't seem like they were both under the same tension when I put them on so I went back to one.

 

I really figured that with the new pulleys and a new belt it would be back to normal.

 

I'm leaning towards either the pivot bolt of the alt or the lock bolt is slipping or something but it all feels and looks to tight when I'm under the hood. Bleh.

 

Maybe I can get a video of the sound/when it happens soon.

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Maybe it is the throughout bearing in the MT.

Test this:

remove the belts.

rev the engine.

if it still squeaks then is is not the belts or pulleys.

it may not be the TO bearing.

but is do love tests.

+++

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I plan on doing the clutch and TO bearing very soon because I was hearing the standard chiming/singing TO bearing from time to time. It's tied to rpms, idle or in gear, and goes away completely when I barely tap the clutch. I temporarily tightened the clutch cable ever so slightly and the sound is no more. That was happening before and after this squeal I hear now. Maybe this is all part of that as well, and I'm going crazy chasing the wrong issue.

 

The current sound never lasts long, and the direction of the sound seems to come from both the center and the drivers side of the car--I assume that's from both pulleys.

 

Originally I thought it was the TO bearing because it happened when I was shifting gears or downshifting. I have the parts, but was just putting off pulling the engine to do it all.

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Clutch pilot bearing. It only rotates when there is a difference in speed between the flywheel and the clutch disc. Think about that in relation to when you hear the noise. Roll that around in your head a bit.....

 

Bearings make noise when they are dry, worn, damaged, etc - but still TIGHT. 

 

Once they get loose - IE: REALLY worn out - they get quiet again. 

 

If you have a wheel bearing that's making noise - no problem. Start worrying when it STOPS making noise again. Because that's when the wheel will fall off. 

 

GD

Edited by GeneralDisorder

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10-4

 

I was leaning towards clutch/tranny bearing to begin with. I have a new pilot bearing and LUK clutch kit sitting here, may as well just stop putting it off and do it. I also noticed today a small, almost inaudible squeal as I was actually selecting second gear with the clutch engaged, then when I disengaged the clutch it did it's normal loud squeal. Had never noticed it before.

 

I'm pretty certain it's the bearing now that GD mentions it. I also think maybe I was hearing two noises. One from the alt pulley from a loose belt, and the other from the pilot bearing. Then having a glazed alt pulley sent me chasing that as the only issue. Just to make sure I'm going to drive it shortly with no v belt and see if I can get it to squeal. Then I'm going to stop chasing the belt problem and let you all know when the clutch/pilot bearing job is done.

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Welp, should've listened to my gut, but once GD chimed in with the same opinion I had a good feeling it was right.

Pulled my first engine this weekend, and found the pilot bearing was completely seized. Not a single bit of motion. New clutch, new pilot, new throwout, new dealer clips for the throwout--the clutch fork clip was ridiculously tricky to reinstall...there's gotta be a easy way that I couldn't figure out, but eventually got it. The rear main had dried oil below it, but nothing wet or fresh looking. Maybe the last repair didn't clean it up? I left it alone. Not sure if I should've replaced or not, but oh well.

Also did the oil pan with anaerobic permatex. Holy crap the old cork was caked on and ridiculously time consuming to remove. Wire brush on a drill would've helped a lot. Also did oem exhaust header seals.

Went ahead and did timing belts and tensioners too. Oil pump/cam seals are about 30k miles old and aren't leaking so I left them alone. Easy enough to do with the engine in anyhow. All in all, a good weekend. Took all of Saturday and half of today working fairly leisurely. Very pleased. Started back up immediately, and now I can downshift again without sounding like a pig! Shifts so smooth.

Thanks to the wealth of knowledge on this forum I was able to pull my first engine with relative ease!

Edited by Nickoli
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Well shoot dang! Seems like I fudged up my motor mounts. Getting a clunk clunk clunk when turning it over to start or shutting it down. Definitely not internal engine sound. Reminds me of the sound when my old one would take off from a stop and it had shot mounts. Engine noticeably rocks left/right ever so slightly when I have the hood open and gas it hard.

 

I tightened in the order the FSM said--bottom two nuts, then the pitch stopper--and made sure they were torqued right. Did I maybe mess up the tranny mounts when I was raising it up?

 

Something I should fix ASAP?

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Might be the exhaust hitting something. New mounts are never a bad thing on a car that old. They can often be found really cheap on Rockauto, etc.

 

GD

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New mounts on. No more clank. I think it was the radiator shifting on it's mounts...

 

In other news...my wrist pin plug on the passenger side appears to be leaking coolant. Me thinks this is bad news..? That plug leads to a part of the engine I know the least about, and searching the forum hasn't given me anything about coolant ever leaking from there. It's ever so small, but it's definitely coming from there.

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