Tony Cortado Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 (edited) I'm trying to rotate the camshaft sprocket thingy, drivers side, but it's not budging very easily... And when I do manage to move it an inch, it snaps back into place. It's about 1/3 turn out of time. Any tricks on rotating that pulley? Edited March 28, 2018 by Tony Cortado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch de la Brat Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Use a vice grip and the old belt to hold it in place once you get it close to set, or get a helper to hold it. Another option (not exactly recommended, but a possible solution) is to count how many teeth off the cam gear is, then set your crank gear that many teeth off and set the belt that way. Rotate the engine to check alignment at TDC after attempting this. Twitch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 I made a tool based on the pictures / sketches in the factory service manual. You are fighting the valve springs. Once you get it in the position with the mark at the top, it will stay. The tool is a piece of metal with 2 bolts poking through so they can get into 2 of the bigger 4 holes around the edge of the pulley. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cortado Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 DaveT I've got some 2x4s and plenty of narrow enough bolts lying around. Fantastic idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cortado Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 Genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cortado Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 (edited) Since my drivers side belt skipped a few teeth (causing no start), I will have to do the timing from scratch. Is this video accurate? I am very much a visual learner. www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG1p70E4VXc Also, will I have to do something with the distributor rotor? Edited March 29, 2018 by Tony Cortado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Can't check the video right now. You should not have to touch the distributor if it is as it has always been. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metadope Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Yes, the video is accurate. As DaveT said, you needn't (and don't want) to mess with the distributor, just the cam pulleys. For me, using a 10mm socket wrench from beneath allowed me to rotate the cams using one of their three bolts (this is mentioned as a technique on one of the many timing-belt threads here, though I very much like the custom tool idea, if you have clearance). Since they are pushing pistons via their camshafts, there is a variable amount of resistance as you rock around the clock. The main goal is to get them aligned 180 degrees from each other, with one pointing directly at 12 and the other directly at 6, all while the flywheel stays with the pointer at the mark. Another gotcha I encountered was, while putting on the belt, my carefully positioned cam pulley gets pulled out of position. So I had to go through the rotation again, and did this twice before I positioned the mark to compensate a bit (should we call this retarded? or advanced?), and let the force of getting the belt on pull the pulley into perfect position. It is amazing how much difference being off a single-tooth can make in the engine's performance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 the first job i ever did on a Subie was ea82 timing belts 25 years ago. I was so impressed at the manufacturrs respect for the technician in the step by step logical process, the three marks permanently marked into the flywheel and the top of the cam box marked top and bottom into the timing belt rear covers. With all this design catering for the tech not to have to fight the valve spring tension experienced with so many other engine designs. I think I have since done timing belts without the one full turn by setting LHS cam 180 from the LHS, making use of the markings at the bottom of rear cover aligning with cam box top. Once heads have been machined you lose the perfection of teeth lining up a tiny bit, so beoing "out" by half a tooth seems to be forgiveable. The instyruction to rotate engine a few revoloutions to make sure belts are correct by continuing to align after each two two turns alternating from side to side , if you get what I say 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cortado Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 (edited) I did the procedure, consistent with what you wrote, with the video, and consistent with my haynes manual, and verified with a mirror (I am working with engine in the car), that they are 180 degrees from each other 12/6 with painted flywheel mark at top. Tightened the tensioner pulleys, etc. Instead of putting everything together, I wanted to see if it would start without reinstalling all the v belts/accessories just to see if the timing is right to fire it up. The engine turns but never fires, and I can smell the fuel reaching the injector. Am I supposed to put all the accessories back on for her to start even for one second? Edited March 29, 2018 by Tony Cortado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metadope Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 If you're confident in your cam alignments, I'm not sure what would prevent a start. I drove my Loyale around the block with the timing wrong-- off by a tooth or two, it still started, but chugged along like Sylvester the cat dying from suffering suckatash. Are your timing belt covers still off? If so, rest assured that you can make an adjustment (if need be) to those timing belts even with your accessory belts back in place. As long as you can reach the tension pulley's bolt heads, you can fix off-by-a-tooth problem (if there is one) and/or check and adjust the tension (which is recommended for new belts after an indeterminate break-in period anyway, right?). So, you're now tasked with the elemental procedure-- spark? Spark at the coil? I'd go ahead and go over my checklist and put everything back together (you want that water pump to be belted asap), just leaving the timing belt covers off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cortado Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 (edited) I may have found my problem. In the video it talks about some painted marks on the flywheel. On the video, the painted marks are on the three vertical lines. On my flywheel, the one painted mark is not. I aligned my 12/6 with the painted mark, but I think I should have aligned it with the middle of 3 vertical lines. Is that right? Edited October 11, 2018 by Tony Cortado broken url link; wanted to update for future readers, so I added photos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metadope Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Yes, you want the middle of the three lines on your flywheel for your camshaft alignments (that's your 2nd pic above-- the first pic is used if you ever do need to mess with your distributor). Mine is not (or was not) painted, just the three engraved lines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metadope Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Yeah, I should've listened to the alarm bell that went off in my head when I read: that they are 180 degrees from each other 12/6 with painted flywheel mark at top I wondered, who painted your flywheel? Miles Fox and team painted theirs. I myself borrowed some enamel (bright pink) from my sister and dabbed some on the spot, just a few daze ago when I went through this (it does help to see the mark while rotating the crank by hand). But some previous owner must've put that splotch on there, to help with that old black magic a reinstalled distributor, timing light, firing order and... gotcha. Don't go there. Now you know. Two different sets of timing marks, fine and gross, and we are gross when we change the belts. Congrats, I can hear your engine firing from here... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cortado Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 MOTHER OF ZEUS, SABINA THE SOOBIE STARTED RIGHT UP. Now I can take my expectant girlfriend to the hospital once she goes into labor -- due in 3 days! You guys are life savers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Rotate the crank so Piston #1 is at top dead center. Use the center of the 3 ||| lines on the flywheel and the v on the bell housing for theprecise position. Do not use the 0 degree TDC / timing marks. Rotate the cam shaft that drives the distributor so the small timing mark hole is aligned with the notch on the plastic back cover. Install that belt, set the tensioner. Torque is applied to the cam pulley during this. Check the FSM for ft-lbs. Verify the timing marks are lined up. Next is the step MANY people miss the first time they do an EA82 - Rotate the crankshaft 1 full turn by wrenching the bolt that holds the V belt pulley on the front. Install the second timing belt, using the same crank position mark, and the similar mark on that cam and it's back cover. Set the tensioner, with the FSM torque on the cam, check the alignment. The following is my procedure to insure that the belts are at the proper tension after they walk into the paths they will run in. Turn the crank by hand a few revolutions. Re check / re set the tension on the cams, while each is aligned at the ||| marks. Run for 20-30 seconds. No longer, as there is no coolant, or water pump turning. Recheck again. Reassemble the rest of the items removed to get at the belts. I have been running mine for several years now without the front timing belt covers installed, with no ill effects. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cortado Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) Yeah, I should've listened to the alarm bell that went off in my head when I read: I wondered, who painted your flywheel? Miles Fox and team painted theirs. I myself borrowed some enamel (bright pink) from my sister and dabbed some on the spot, just a few daze ago when I went through this (it does help to see the mark while rotating the crank by hand). But some previous owner must've put that splotch on there, to help with that old black magic a reinstalled distributor, timing light, firing order and... gotcha. Don't go there. Now you know. Two different sets of timing marks, fine and gross, and we are gross when we change the belts. Congrats, I can hear your engine firing from here... I'm the ... fourth owner, so I don't know who painted the flywheel. I did assume after I realized this wasn't for the timing, that it was for a reinstalled distributor. That's when I learned that the distributor is connected mechanically to the camshaft and couldn't normally get out of time. Decided to leave the covers on until I do a rebuild later in the summer; there's just too many fluids being flung around, so I don't want to potentially degrade the new belts. Now that I know how to do it, I don't mind. I did keep the fan shroud off, I don't really see a reason to have it on there. I wish I could change the title of this thread to "Timing Belt Replacement Instructions," so the next person that's looking can find it easier. Or, make them work for it. Thanks again, to everyone for helping me. Edited March 31, 2018 by Tony Cortado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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