Subberman Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 My wife's daily driver, a 2000 Outback with 270k miles, started making an engine noise. Research on youtube led me to believe it was likely a spun rod bearing. I discounted the possibility that it was the timing belt tensioner because a reputable local shop had replaced the timing belt less than a year ago (it was past due and I didn't have time). Since time was tight and I knew there was a good possibility the engine could not be economically repaired, I swapped in another engine from the junkyard. That was a couple of months ago and everything is working fine. Yesterday I started to tear into her old engine to see exactly what had happened and if it was worth fixing. I removed the oil pan/pickup and TB cover and found that the TB tensioner had failed and the belt was floppy loose. Also, there is no metal in the oil so it appears the rod bearings are ok for the time being. Sooo, I'm inclined to fix her old engine to keep as a backup or sell. I will obviously replace the head gaskets and TB components, but I'm wondering what else I should do while I'm at it. I know the car overheated when the original head gaskets failed at around 90k and it has plenty of miles on it, so even if the bearings are ok at the moment, I figure they can't be too far away from failure. Even with new TB and HG, I can't have a lot of confidence in the engine or sell it to someone as a "good" engine. Should I split the crank case for a more thorough inspection? Internal engine work is a little out of my comfort zone so I would probably take it to a machine shop, but I worry it would then become too costly to justify the work. What about replacing the rings, oil pump, and water pump? I'm reluctant to do all that without new bearings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana tom Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Don't split it. Replace the oil pump with a 10 mm Subaru pump. replacing the rings is optional but I wouldn't on a 2.5. Water pump with a high quality one. Subaru #642 head gaskets, only O.E. timing components. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Rings (no honing), 10mm oil pump, new gaskets and timing. Run it. GD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 If the valves are bent get used heads and what GD just said. Most folks wouldn't split the block. If it was consuming oil before this then the value of new rings increases. Don't split the block. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1197sts Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I have a similar situation, I have a EJ251 with about 178K on it that I want to use as a spare engine, ran pretty well before I removed it. The timing components are suspect but that is easy to fix. It had a pretty significant oil leak, appeared to be from the right head gasket. I cut open the oil filter and there is no evidence of bearing failure. I don't hear any rod knock. I am planning on replacing the headgaskets using mls turbo gaskets, new rings, seal well and I will have a good spare engine. Playing devil's advocate here, with the rod bearings being the weak spot on these engines isn't it pretty risky to not split the block? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montana tom Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 No, splitting the block is not for a novices. Once you do you may as well go the whole route, New pistons ,size the rods , turn crank, and a whole lot more including bags of cash.... Buying a short block from subaru is a faster better way to go. Rods go out on this engine from overheating or a severe lack of oil !!! If it hasn't done either than don't split it, do what was suggested . Ring it , 10 mm oil pump 642 head gaskets and full O.E. timing set . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 It's extremely risky TO split the block. The clearances are not a trifling matter on a split aluminum block. It will not go back together well if you haven't done quite a few of these and know the special tricks. You are 100% more likely to throw a rod bearing if you do split it than if you don't. GD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subberman Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 Thanks everyone for the advice. I see that there is general agreement not to split the block so I'll go with the suggestions. It was burning some oil so I'll do the rings too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) On 7/12/2018 at 1:26 PM, 1197sts said: playing devil's advocate here, with the rod bearings being the weak spot on these engines isn't it pretty risky to not split the block? Good question -but if it hasn't been overheated or run with crap oil changes the rod bearings will be fine another 100k. if it has been compromised then you're stuck between trying to recover a poor engine which isn't ideal. in this case the order of magnitude experience/cost required to split the block to try and circumvent that risk in't really justified. if you suspect the block and time your time is highly valued, get another engine, it's not worth pissing away the cash and time. years ago i'd repair it and hope for the best. now i'll just dump a suspect block even if it runs perfectly fine and go with a new one. my time is too valuable to dork around with overheated or poorly maintained engines. i have a few engines that technically only need headgaskets, but they're not worth my time/gamble. one of them i know overheated before i ever owned the car so i yanked and bought a JDM. Edited July 13, 2018 by idosubaru 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyeights Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 @idosubaru When you buy a JDM engine do you do the head gaskets before installing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subberman Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) Problem is, as I mentioned, the engine was overheated when the original head gaskets failed at 90k. But it's gone 180k since so maybe it wasn't badly overheated. Also, oil maintenance was less than perfect. Still, I have trouble throwing away an engine that could be put back in service with just the cost of a timing belt kit. Are there any measurements or other indicators regarding the condition of the bearings possible without disassembly? I could check sideplay, for example on some rods but I doubt that's helpful. Edited July 13, 2018 by Subberman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 37 minutes ago, Subberman said: Problem is, as I mentioned, the engine was overheated when the original head gaskets failed at 90k. But it's gone 180k since so maybe it wasn't badly overheated. Also, oil maintenance was less than perfect. Still, I have trouble throwing away an engine that could be put back in service with just the cost of a timing belt kit. Are there any measurements or other indicators regarding the condition of the bearings possible without disassembly? I could check sideplay, for example on some rods but I doubt that's helpful. i don't have data in this area but my thoughts are if it made it 180k after an overheat then the bearings weren't likely compromised a significant degree. this is the game to be played with used cars/engines, it's always a gamble. just pick the gamble that's the best fit for you. unfortunately splitting subaru blocks changes the game because it's not economical nor wise without compelling skillsets doing the work. 1 hour ago, Crazyeights said: @idosubaru When you buy a JDM engine do you do the head gaskets before installing it? Depends which engine and the circumstances. For my personal daily driver use I wouldn't even think about it as long as it's not an EJ25D, but i would never buy a JDM EJ25D to begin with. If I install 5 JDM engines for personal use in my life, 5 headgasket repairs will not be less work or cost than not doing them for no reason. The way 2000+ EJ's fail they're easily driven when the headgaskets do start to fail there's very little risk of stranding/reliability. If the car is rusty just keep adding oil/coolant until you buy your next 15 year old cheap subaru. maybe i'd think differently if vehicles out here had a reasonable chance to beat rust. Very few 2000 Subaru's here are destined to be on the road much longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) We won't even bother with JDM engines or even used USDM engines anymore. Risk aversion.... we buy reman short blocks from Subaru parts or we build a new block with all new parts (even the block halves), or sometimes with heavy machine work on a 255/257 case. In the specific case of EJ205's we will sometimes toss in a complete JDM 205 with new timing but that is only if the customer is fully aware of the risks and the drawbacks. In that one case it can be considerably cheaper than a build or new block and the 205 is pretty tough if you don't push it or abuse it. Non turbos almost always get the Subaru reman blocks. 3yr/36k warranty through SOA. Not my balls on the chopping block if it lets go. Risk averse.... best deal at the highest quality for the customer. Lowest risk to the shop. Better customer satisfaction. GD Edited July 14, 2018 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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