1986 Subaru Wagon

[Dakotas86Subaru]

Hey Subaru people! I’m new here, and this is my first Subaru. Anyways, I have a few questions about small lift kits, and accessories in general. My girlfriend and I would like to turn this Subaru into an off-road vehicle for camping and fun trail trips. Even with research, I’m not understand exactly what I need to complete this project. I want to put a lift on it, anywhere from 2-6 inches depending on the modifications needed. I found sites for this, but do you have a specific site recommendation to purchase a lift from? Also, other that the lift itself, what do I need to make the lift work, or can I just buy a 6 inch lift and it’ll bolt right up and I’m ready for the trails? I hear about having to lengthen the steering shaft, is there a custom shaft someone sells or do I have to fabricate it? (I can’t weld, but I can cut stuff lol). 

Basically, I want my Subaru to have enough clearance to actually have fun on some technical stuff, but I need to know exactly what I need in addition to a lift, and if the car itself will actually handle offroading. 

Also, where do you guys mount winches to? We off road alone, and a winch is somewhat necessary. 

This is a car that was handed down to us through family, and we both have reliable daily’s, so im okay with making this Subaru totally impractical for everyday driving. 

Thanks!

[Subarule]

This will be a very unpopular opinion but I feel actual pain that another mid-80s will become a FrankenSube. There will soon be, or already are, none left intact. Which makes those that are all the more valuable. If there are any.

[el_freddo]

I’m waiting for GD to chime in about the move to an EJ platform... GD?

As to your questions, the steering extension should be part of the lift kit. 

You’ll want bigger wheels. I’ve got a 3 inch kit and 27 inch tyres, a sweet combo even for some quite technical stuff. And if you want to do a lot of off-roading in this long term, do some stitch (or full) welding of the sheet metal seams. If I did an L series again I’d weld all door jamb and window seams, then do others as deemed necessary.

To turn those larger wheels you’ll probably want more power. An EJ conversion is the best for this. GD will say the EJ22 is becoming longer in the tooth, but I’m sure you’ll still be able to find a good unit. The EJ25 from the Gen3 would be a good option too. Avoid the dual overhead cam EJ25

Next is brakes. Either learn to drive appropriately, find a set of rear discs from an RX/Vortex or even rarer, find the XT6 setup with the five stud conversion. Or find an EJ brake conversion setup.

Other accessories are typically DIY... 

Cheers 

Bennie

[idosubaru]

Scott of SJR lifts will hook you up. He’s a member here and who i e gotten my lift bits from.  Look up his facebook, website (it was down just a week or so ago though) or on here. Scott in Bellingham or something like that is his user name.  Bolt it all up and you’re done. He will provide or tell you what additional things you need if any. 

[Al Zhiemer]

As far as the lift is concerned, it also depends on how handy you are. Although there is absolutely bugger all difference between installing a 1" lift or a 6" lift, its going to be all the little things that are going to cause the headaches. Things like wiring needing to be extended, re-hanging your exhaust, getting your shift levers to sit in a nice location are just a couple of things that may cause you problems. Personally, and this is just my opinion here but I think 3" of lift on these vehicles is more than enough, 3" - 6" and I think you are going to start to feel the vehicle become very unsettled in corners. With 2" of lift and 27" mud tyres, you get approx. 110mm (or about 4.3") of lift all up, 2" in the body mounts and you gain about another 2 and a bit inches in tyre height. With 3" lift, that would take you to about 135mm of lift over all.

 

And Subarule, I'm glad you're not here. In the quest to build Ruby, I've wrecked out an MY sedan and wagon, a "L" series wagon, all of which were in to good of a condition and should never have been pulled apart. It saddens me that I wrecked them but its the only way left to get parts to keep this old girls on the road and going.

[GeneralDisorder]

Yep. Sell it and buy a Forester. Can't get enough axles to wheel an EA chassis. Huge waste of time. They eat axles like crazy without lifting. You lift them and it's like every other week you break an axle. Everyone I know that had conventionally lifted GL's, had to get out of it. 

You need spares when wheeling. But you can't buy axles anymore.... or transmissions.... or engine parts. It's a yard ornament at best. You will have to leave it on some trail and that will be the end of it if you try this. Seriously it's a dangerous and stupid idea to wheel an EA that you can't bring spares for. 

GD

Edited December 15, 2018 by GeneralDisorder

[Subarule]

34 minutes ago, Al Zhiemer said:

And Subarule, I'm glad you're not here. In the quest to build Ruby, I've wrecked out an MY sedan and wagon, a "L" series wagon, all of which were in to good of a condition and should never have been pulled apart. It saddens me that I wrecked them but its the only way left to get parts to keep this old girls on the road and going.

I'm glad I'm not there too. It breaks my heart thinking about these vintage gems being pulled apart & cannibalized rather than being restored. I wonder how many intact and/or restored ones are left?

 

I'm keep my '86 GL wagon that I bought new until they pry the keys from my cold dead hands.

[Al Zhiemer]

At this stage, although it can be hard to find a good one, we still have a few running around here and you still stumble across them parked up out the back. But yes, you are right, if I had of had the space to store them I would have kept them for latter day projects. In the mean time, I have just about gathered everything I need to get Ruby to where I want her.

 

Cheers,

Al

[el_freddo]

The apocalyptic talk from GD might just have this part of the forum shut down...

You guys must wheel wrong if you’re breaking axles every time you’re out bush!

Its called mechanical sympathy over ego... simple as that. 

Cheers 

Bennie

[Al Zhiemer]

+1 for Bennie's comment...

I reckon I could already have a pretty good guess as to why they are breaking shafts.

All this doom and gloom towards the EA platform is getting tiresome. Yes its old... Yes its hard to get parts for... Yes there are parts that can no longer even be bought brand new... And yes it is a dying platform, we've all heard it a million times and those of us that own them are also fully aware of this but the whole EJ platform doesn't offer us a small 4X4 ute. No one does, unless you want a Proton Jumbuck, even then that isn't 4X4 and to be honest, I'd rather push my Brumby around then buy a Jumbuck. At the end of the day, we love our MY/V and L series and do what ever it takes to keep them on the road, if we wanted to buy a Forester, then I guess that is what we would have done.

And please explain your comment GD... Everyone who has owned a conventionally lifted GL had to get out of them?? What do you call conventionally lifted?? Are you talking 2" lift or 6" lift?? As I see it, the main thing you have to make sure you are on the money with is the front strut top mounts. Making sure you keep the geometry here, nothing changes. But those that are making serious modifications to their suspension, steering geometry and/or installing 6" of lift with big tyres can only expect to have nothing but issues, your expecting far more from this platform than it was ever designed for and making parts fit that were never mean to be there in the first place. Just because you can fit a WRX strut into a MY, doesn't mean that you should. Just because you can put 6" of lift in to it and run 33/12.5X15 tyres, doesn't mean you should. You hear of it happening all the time, myself included, I sold my GTR33 because it was modified to the point that there was always some niggling little thing wrong with it. Sometimes it could have something to do with the engineering of it or it could just be that dodgy 20 cent o-ring installed on an injector. The more you modify, the more there is to go wrong and break.

I think the question that people need to be asking themselves is this, "If I need to put 6" of lift on to my Subaru to go where I want to go, is this the correct vehicle for me and my needs?" Me, I'm just in the process of building a 2" lift kit for mine, simple install, doesn't look like some mini monster truck wanna be and with a nice tyre combo, it will give me more than enough clearence to go anywhere I want to. And most of all, make it easier for these dodgy knees and back to fold into and out of. So once again, is this the correct vehicle for me? Probably not but its as close as I'm going to get.

How about we just stick to the topic at hand, offer advice on the question that was asked and stop this whole EA's are crap thing that seems to be taking over.

Maybe its time to start looking for a more EA friendly forum.

Sorry Dakotas86Subaru for taking over your post... Rant over... For now LOL

[Dakotas86Subaru]

I appreciate everyone’s advice and opinions lol. I think I’ll stick with a 2 inch lift, on 27s, like one of you suggested. As for axles, all I do is go to the auto parts store and order them. I just replaced both, took me 2 hours. It was the first time they’ve been done ever (227k miles).

[tylertrend]

16 hours ago, Subarule said:

This will be a very unpopular opinion but I feel actual pain that another mid-80s will become a FrankenSube. There will soon be, or already are, none left intact. Which makes those that are all the more valuable. If there are any.

I agree fully. The EA Soobs were built for this kind of use and I don't think huge tires and a lift is going to get you out of any places you otherwise couldn't given your intended use case. Plus I prefer the stock look of the EA's anyhow. As to the dying of the EA platform, it has sometimes been difficult (very), to find certain parts for my 82 HT resto  but I have yet to need something I outright couldn't find. Some parts I have even found new, if not OEM. My list includes glass, fuel tank, axles, engine parts/ gaskets, interior bits, cassette player .... and so on. Not for the faint of heart but still doable; for now. 

[GeneralDisorder]

A first gen Forester automatic is more capable in stock form than any GL ever made, including all the 2-4" lifted ones people have built. And it's not any larger. They are a million times better at everything and are CHEAP. You can also get all the parts they need well into the future. 

Parts store Chinese axles are worse than useless. False sense of security those are. 

It's not doom and gloom. I own an 86 EA81 hatch with an 8" lift running 30" Swampers, and a nissan t-case. And it isn't my first lifted Subaru. Trust me I know all the challenges here. You can't even get decent clutch kits for the 225mm EA clutch anymore. 

Why go the trouble of building one now? 15 years ago I could see it. Now? Why bother with such old equipment that you can't effectively service. 

GD

[el_freddo]

1 hour ago, GeneralDisorder said:

Why go the trouble of building one now? 15 years ago I could see it. Now? Why bother with such old equipment that you can't effectively service. 

Hmmm... on this advice I better go tell my old man to give up on his ‘29 chev and ‘42 Willy’s jeep.

Seriously though, if you can get an L for off-roading, why would you want a Forester, first gen especially??

If you know what you’re doing around and under a vehicle you’ll be sweet. 

I’ve only killed one shaft off-road - front shaft - where I managed to shatter the outer joint’s ball cage.  Funnily enough, it was the first time I was out bush with my new lift and tyres. Dunno what’s changed, other than that shaft, but I’ve not had any issues since. 

One trick I do know of is to set your lift up so you’re not increasing the angle on the CVs by much. Too many people drop the hubs WAY lower than the gearbox/rear diff and that’s asking for shaft issues!

Cheers 

Bennie

[BEECHBM69]

In GD's defense: Whereas I don't believe anything residing in my driveway is "dead" per se, I have the benefit of 20 years accumulated knowledge playing with these cars, as do most of you. In short, we all know what's up. 

When someone shows up who is uninitiated, it would be disingenuous for us to present these as viable daily drivers without some skill, knowledge, and other stuff to drive. These "new to Subaru" people need to be told in no uncertain terms the realities. That's what GD does. He's not emotionally attached (like most of us,) so he can tell the pure, unadulterated, ugly truth. 

Once they know what's up, and decide to press on, then we are here for emotional and parts sourcing support   

To the OP- Good luck with your build. You have other cars to drive, so this should be a fun project for you. Grab a beverage and read. There is a TON of information to sift through. 

Dan

[Dakotas86Subaru]

Hahah you guys have me a little nervous now! Lol. I don’t want to put $1000 worth of lift and tires in this thing to break something and not be able to replace it. 

 

So I know GD mentioned replacing it with a 1st gen forester. I’m not opposed to the idea. We only chose this car because it was free. But we have some funds set apart for a fun off road rig. Is a first gen forester the best bang for your buck on an older off road rig? I want to be able to walk in to an auto parts store and get new reliable parts. I also want the vehicle to be able to actually do some technical off roading than anything.

if a first gen forester is the general consensus, in what setup should I be looking for? Trans, preferred engine, etc.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Dakotas86Subaru

[BEECHBM69]

11 minutes ago, Dakotas86Subaru said:

 

if a first gen forester is the general consensus, .

That's GD's consensus. I doubt you will get any of us to agree..... I personally wouldn't own a Forester. When I run out of GL parts and can't keep my 3 on the road anymore, I will likely get out of Subarus altogether. 

It was a free car, and you plan to build a toy. As long as you look at it as a toy, and realize there may be some issues getting parts yesterday, you'll be fine. Anything can be sourced given enough time and effort (yes, even brand new oil pumps come up on eBay every once in a while.) There is also the "neato" factor of having something one off and unusual. "Oh wow! I haven't seen one of those in forever!" happens all the time. 

Good luck, whatever you decide to do. 

Dan

[Dakotas86Subaru]

Hmm. Okay, I’ll give it a shot. Hell, a 2 inch lift will only run me a couple hundred bucks, and there’s no need for modifying anything else right? Also, where can I find oversized tires for a 13 inch wheel? Everything comes up as stock size, or ATV tires. 

What else should I know about this car? Are all 4 axles the same (so I can just carry a couple spares)? Do I have to fabricate my own bracket for a winch? If so, where do people usually put them? Should I be running skid plates, and if so, maybe you guys can show me pictures of how you have yours mounted. Thanks!

[Subarule]

16 hours ago, tylertrend said:

I agree fully. The EA Soobs were built for this kind of use and I don't think huge tires and a lift is going to get you out of any places you otherwise couldn't given your intended use case. Plus I prefer the stock look of the EA's anyhow. As to the dying of the EA platform, it has sometimes been difficult (very), to find certain parts for my 82 HT resto  but I have yet to need something I outright couldn't find. Some parts I have even found new, if not OEM. My list includes glass, fuel tank, axles, engine parts/ gaskets, interior bits, cassette player .... and so on. Not for the faint of heart but still doable; for now. 

I like the hunt of trying to find OEM parts. I realize that some are impossible to obtain but I'm not about to change the original look of my 86 wagon. It has a Weber carb and aftermarket front axles & brakes but otherwise it's all stock, except for the usual things like plugs, filters, brakes and the like.

I bought it because I like how it looked and how I could use it  and I'm not about to mess with that. I keep getting asked by guys, when out in public, if I want to sell it. Hell no!

[YnotDIY]

You should check out both of these threads as they have a lot of useful information.

https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/106807-improved-shock-absorbers-and-spring-coils-on-loyales/

https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/117164-my-92-loyale-safariwagon/?page=23

I just got into the EA system a few years ago and have not had a bad time finding parts. Sometimes it does take a couple of weeks, but it's really all about who you know and now you know us! Don't hesitate to reach out or send a direct message. There are not many parts in my area (Michigan), but there should be plenty on the west coast! I know there are also parts in Montana.

Just a heads up as sometimes this works for me as a part sourcing tactic.

I'll often cruise Craig's List for old Subarus out of state. Popular states to search through are Montana, Oregon, Tennessee, Washington, North Carolina, and New Mexico.  If I find someone selling an 80's subaru I'll often just send them an email or text and see if they would be willing to part anything out.

I've had a lot of success finding contacts or sourcing parts this way if for some reason USMB doesn't come through.

Cheers,

TJ

[Subarule]

3 hours ago, Dakotas86Subaru said:

Hahah you guys have me a little nervous now! Lol. I don’t want to put $1000 worth of lift and tires in this thing to break something and not be able to replace it. 

 

So I know GD mentioned replacing it with a 1st gen forester. I’m not opposed to the idea. We only chose this car because it was free. But we have some funds set apart for a fun off road rig. Is a first gen forester the best bang for your buck on an older off road rig? I want to be able to walk in to an auto parts store and get new reliable parts. I also want the vehicle to be able to actually do some technical off roading than anything.

if a first gen forester is the general consensus, in what setup should I be looking for? Trans, preferred engine, etc.

I don't know what condition your 86 wagon is in now but bear in mind that it's worth a whole lot more intact than it would be if altered.

I don't if these mid-80s Subarus were intended for hard off-roading but I suspect not. I don't recall off-roading with actual cars to be a thing in the mid-80s. I think Subarus were intended to be all-weather vehicles. I bought mine as a daily driver in hilly Colorado high country. What did Japan automotive engineers know about off-roading in the 1980s?

 

[GeneralDisorder]

First gen Forester with an automatic, 2" lifts, wheels, and tires will wheel circles around that old EA junk. 

One of my tech's recently bought a 2000 Foz needing an engine for $250. He bought a wrecked Outback for $500 and swapped the engine over. For $750, some maintenance items, and fluids he has a daily. Lift kit, tires (for the stock 16's) are about the same price for any Subaru. 

So do what you want, but understand that a Forester will be less work, more fun, and more reliable. They have 165 HP and can sustain modern freeway speeds even with big tires....Do you want to have fun and go wheeling or do you want to spend LOTS of time looking for parts, being disappointed in the performance, frustrated by breakages, and endlessly wrenching on a 90 HP rattle-trap? 

Seriously its a huge waste of time. Unless you like the wrenching, and the searching for parts, and such more than actually using it.

GD

[idosubaru]

Run it. 

What necessary parts aren’t available?Convert to EJ alternator and front hubs and have all the OEM axles and bearings and brakes and more you could want.

[idosubaru]

90 hp!  Ah!  I’ve never off roaded/lifted an EA, I’m used to XT6s which at least have 145 hp and don’t struggle with large tires.

[idosubaru]

12 minutes ago, GeneralDisorder said:

90 HP rattle-trap

GD

I forgot about the 90hp thing...im used to lifting and larger tires in (equally dead hahah) XT6s.  I wouldn’t get into an EA around here without parts cars/stashes like I have for XTs, they’ve all rusted away.