Bababou Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 I’m driving an 87 GL 10 front wheel drive the car is SPFI but as someone on here told me it has a MPFI motor in it. On cold start I am getting at least 1 lifter ticking sometimes sounds like a couple are. It normally goes away after the idle drops down; sometimes I have to restart it for the tick to stop if it’s especially cold. Cold for my area is 40f on a cold morning right now. When I got the car running earlier this year I resealed the oil pump, replaced the water pump and did the timing kit and the alternator was bad. I'm reading now I should have also done the cam seals while I was at it as that can stop lifter tick if it’s leaking. I definitely have an oil leak somewhere but seems mostly to be from the valve covers. I have run seafoam in the oil a couple times now and it made the oil pitch black both times but did nothing for the tick. I am going to run some ATF in it when I change the oil today to see if that helps. Is there anything else I can try before looking into replacing lifters? I also need to pick up a tester to check compression. From what I have found 150-180 PSI and close on all 4 is a good motor, at what PSI am I looking at a re-ring or rebuild? The car runs well over all I zip to work at 75mph for 45 mins no issues just slow to get the first 30mph some times. I’m only getting 20mpg but its running at 4k rpm most of the time on the auto trans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmpdx Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 (edited) I had lifter tick forever. Mine was fixed when I did the oil pump seals in September. I wanted to do the cam tower seals at the same time but did not have the time or courage to take those off without pulling the motor. My motor is SPFI with 220k miles. My oil pressure hardly registered before the oil pump reseal and now runs with pressure as expected. If you do the cam tower seals this is a good video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VuwB7TXNBU Here is another thread which summarizes lifter tick well and is widely discussed thoroughout multiple posts on here. Edited December 28, 2018 by kmpdx added information that I found Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 You can’t have a MPFI in a SPFI vehicle unless you do a major wiring change. You might have a block that was originally MPFI but is now fitted with carb/SPFI heads. If one lifter is ticking, I’d leave it as annoying as it can be you could spend ages chasing it and end up wanting to burn the car at some point. Or EJ’ing it. Here’s my lifter tick. It was odd. Came on suddenly, did this for two weeks then went quiet again. Maybe because it was when I decided to do the EJ conversion, then it went quiet when it realised I was serious I haven’t looked back since, other than at this video. I’d like to do a repeat video with the EJ engine but that space is now covered in wrecks... Cheers Bennie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 5 hours ago, Bababou said: On cold start I am getting at least 1 lifter ticking sometimes sounds like a couple are. Every EA82/ER27 ticking HLA's ('lifters') I've come across was fixed with #1 and #2 below, at a minimum do step 1 first it's really easy. 1. reseal the oil pump 2. replace the oil pump 3. reseal the cam carrier lower orings and replace the HLA's 4. live with it - you can drive them nearly indefinitely. On vehicles severely overheated I've seen and replaced seized HLA's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Rebuild is not viable. Can't get the parts anymore. Did you replace the oil pump shaft seal? About all you can do at this point is replace the oil pump shaft seal, the cam tower o-rings, and the rest of the gaskets. If that doesn't solve it, it's not going to get solved. You can't buy oil pumps for these engines anymore, and half the time the problem is wear in the lifter buckets, or the buckets have shifted, etc. Can't be fixed. There's just no parts for these. 20 MPG isn't very good. I get near that in my 1986 5.0 Trans Am with 700R4, 3000 stall converter doing 85 down the interstate @ 3200 RPM. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bababou Posted December 31, 2018 Author Share Posted December 31, 2018 On 12/28/2018 at 4:49 AM, el_freddo said: You can’t have a MPFI in a SPFI vehicle unless you do a major wiring change. You might have a block that was originally MPFI but is now fitted with carb/SPFI heads. If one lifter is ticking, I’d leave it as annoying as it can be you could spend ages chasing it and end up wanting to burn the car at some point. Or EJ’ing it. Here’s my lifter tick. It was odd. Came on suddenly, did this for two weeks then went quiet again. Maybe because it was when I decided to do the EJ conversion, then it went quiet when it realised I was serious I haven’t looked back since, other than at this video. I’d like to do a repeat video with the EJ engine but that space is now covered in wrecks... Cheers Bennie It must be a MPFI block then, it has a knock sensor and PCV port both cut/crimped off and the wiring looks original. Along with the car is marked as SPFI on the under hood sticker. I really want to EJ this car but I would want to find the parts to make it AWD first or find a way to run a newer trans as front wheel only. On 12/28/2018 at 11:03 AM, GeneralDisorder said: Rebuild is not viable. Can't get the parts anymore. Did you replace the oil pump shaft seal? About all you can do at this point is replace the oil pump shaft seal, the cam tower o-rings, and the rest of the gaskets. If that doesn't solve it, it's not going to get solved. You can't buy oil pumps for these engines anymore, and half the time the problem is wear in the lifter buckets, or the buckets have shifted, etc. Can't be fixed. There's just no parts for these. 20 MPG isn't very good. I get near that in my 1986 5.0 Trans Am with 700R4, 3000 stall converter doing 85 down the interstate @ 3200 RPM. GD Okay at least that leaves it as something I can do at home, Im not comfortable rebuilding a motor myself yet. I got the 3 piece kit to reseal the pump so shaft seal, o ring on the body of the pump and the Micky mouse o ring. Anything you would check to up the MPG? I have a check engine light for a EGR vacuum solenoid but not the EGR valve I replaced the solenoid. Car has 247K miles, the motor no clue. Seems the best bet is to start collecting seals and after my 02 finally gets finished pull this motor for cleaning and reseal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 If it’s got a redundant knock sensor this indicates, at least to me that you’ve got a turbo block - these have a lower compression piston fitted. This could be where you MPG is going. Some one please correct me if I’m wrong! Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bababou Posted December 31, 2018 Author Share Posted December 31, 2018 These are the pictures I posted in an earlier post where i was sorting out the wire for the oil pressure unit. The sensor and port are to the passenger side (USDM) of the center of the case just below the transmission stay. If that the case 7.7:1CR no wonder it does not like to move. Are there any ways to figure out if its the turbo version or not without taking it apart? https://ibb.co/eWTZK9 https://ibb.co/kdoC6p https://ibb.co/cOc5Rp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Inspection camera poked through the spark plug hole (if possible). From viewing the piston you’ll know if it’s NA or turbo. NA wil have little “moon crescents” in the top of the piston, turbo will have a dished or stepped down section. It’ll be very obvious, especially if you can find pics to compare if you don’t already know what you’re looking at. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 I have replaced hvla twice and resolved the tick. Never needed to replace the oil pump to fix the noise. Mizpah will will reco your lifters for peanuts. I think our oz market can still supply new hvla. My 87 carb block has hole threaded for knock sensor which came in handy when I fitted knock control equipment to it. An NA mpfi block will also have hole threaded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Early first series turbo only pump out 120 psi on comp test. Don't think it is specified any different for second series but my second series turbo has 150 psi using same gauge as early model test. So, a comp above 150 would delete concept of turbo pistons on board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 And you still have single port intake to heads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bababou Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 6 hours ago, el_freddo said: Inspection camera poked through the spark plug hole (if possible). From viewing the piston you’ll know if it’s NA or turbo. NA wil have little “moon crescents” in the top of the piston, turbo will have a dished or stepped down section. It’ll be very obvious, especially if you can find pics to compare if you don’t already know what you’re looking at. Cheers Bennie I will have to give that a try thank you. I just pulled some pics on google, NA has valve clearance cuts and the turbo has an oval cut out of the center very clear difference. 2 hours ago, jono said: And you still have single port intake to heads? Yes it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Just looked at your pics and surely looks like a single pin green knock sensor as fitted to the second generation EA82T You might just be running a low comp sloth! Start researching alternative fuel sources to suit low comp like digester gas !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 I have nearly been tempted to try NA on turbo EA82 as the turbo seems to go pretty good before any boost cones on Maybe your previous owner was also curious? Possibly has NA slugs jammed in .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bababou Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 5 hours ago, jono said: I have nearly been tempted to try NA on turbo EA82 as the turbo seems to go pretty good before any boost cones on Maybe your previous owner was also curious? Possibly has NA slugs jammed in .... Honestly they probably did this as a save to get it back on the road at some point. There is a dent from the underside of the hood up above the motor, makes me wonder what came out of the motor. I'm going to drop a bore scope in later today after work to look at the pistons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bababou Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 Cold start running about 2200RPM. Maybe turn the volume down. Warmed up at 550 RPM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Once warmed up that doesn’t sound like valve tick... Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 A new set of lifters will sound the same until you take it around the blocks for 20 minutes or so. Next start up should be bliss. See if someone has a used set nearby to send to mizpah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 88-91 XT nonturbos all have Knock sensors. are the NA and turbo block cases identical externally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 9 hours ago, idosubaru said: 88-91 XT nonturbos all have Knock sensors. are the NA and turbo block cases identical externally? I didn’t know that about the NA MPFI XTs and the knock sensors. I always knew a knock sensor as a turbo only engine thing for the EA82. Externally the block is the same MPFI NA and turbo. It’s essentially the pistons that change in the turbos, and most likely the cam profile. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bababou Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 On 1/1/2019 at 4:31 PM, el_freddo said: Once warmed up that doesn’t sound like valve tick... Cheers Bennie I only hear a squeaking after it warms up I'm thinking pulley or bearing, that fades as the motor gets warmer. Some times you can hear the injector ticking as well. What are you hearing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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