ThosL Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 My Subaru started up in a grocery parking lot yesterday as I was driving toward the main road I lost power fairly quickly. I figured the timing belt broke. I was hoping low RPMs meant the engine wasn't damaged as can happen. I had it towed to my mechanic who got to it today. Different verdict; the fuel pump had died. Fast efficient replacement with a used unit, $225. What would be the tell-tale difference between the two failures, timing belt vs. fuel pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Broken timing belt means engine won’t run until the cam belt is replaced (EJs <95 models), or for 95 and up models, internal repair work and a new cam belt are sorted. If you break a timing belt and have momentum to keep the engine rotating, it won’t “feel right” compared to the same feeling you get when you turn the key off. I hope that makes sense. If it’s just the fuel pump, I reckon you dodged a bullet. Get that cam belt and all idlers replaces if it’s due for replacement. Cheers Bennie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan909 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 As you found, a bad fuel pump just means the motor slows or stops. A timing failure can result in a range of symptoms. If the belt skips a tooth (e.g. due to a failing tensioner) the timing's going to be out a little and degrade performance. Or you can experience what happened to me: The toothed idler seized, effectively stopping the belt. But the rest of the moving parts still had a lot of inertia, so the two passenger side timing (cam) sprockets shattered, smashing the timing cover on that side (that part was the giveaway when I raised the hood - lots of plastic bits), while internally three of the exhaust valves were bent by contact with the pistons. All that meant that there was a pretty abrupt THUNK as the motor stopped. I'm sure others here can relate the symptoms they experienced; perhaps together they represent a thumbnail guide to how the failures can present, though it may be less than definitive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkyboy Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) When you try to start a car with a broken timing belt you get one long whiiiiirrrr sound instead of the rrr-rrr-rrr with the compression sound since there is no resistance from the valvetrain the crank is easy for the starter to turn. And no compression sound cause the valves stay closed As soon as you hear it you will know that something is significantly wrong, and might be accompanied by additional valve smashing if one got bent enough to stay down or broke a piece off, and your engine is newer than 96. FYI Subarus have always been easy to replace fuel pumps on. What you paid is reasonable, but you can buy a new pump and install it yourself for about half if you are into that kinda nonsense. All the soobs i have seen have an access panel (like yours I'm assuming, you didn't specify year) or external pump. I would spend the difference on organic grass fed steaks lol! Edited January 16, 2019 by sparkyboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 $225 for used? That's nuts. That's a 1 hour job and you can easily get a new pump for $100. You need a new mechanic. GD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThosL Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 6 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said: $225 for used? That's nuts. That's a 1 hour job and you can easily get a new pump for $100. You need a new mechanic. GD $225 was fair for a 97 2.5; quick turn around time; I don't know any shop around here who would have done it for under $300 and most don't put in used units, so not sure why experts are critical here on price when they said that valve cover, cam cover gasket replacement, etc. would be a lot more than the same mechanic did for $300 plus parts and threw in welding on exhaust and changing out a couple coolant system hoses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) details on car. If it's a Gen2 legacy or Outback , can you get your original pump back to inspect for a ruptured o-ring or bad cap? https://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/110-gen-2-2000-2004/41182-symptoms-fuel-pump-o-ring-problem.html Edited January 16, 2019 by 1 Lucky Texan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkyboy Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, 1 Lucky Texan said: details on car. If it's a Gen2 legacy or Outback , can you get your original pump back to inspect for a rutured o-ring or bad cap? https://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/110-gen-2-2000-2004/41182-symptoms-fuel-pump-o-ring-problem.html A lot of the sube guys and e30 guys for that matter carry a spare pump but if this happens again, find a person willing to assist and start smacking the access panel with a fist (side of hand karate chop motion, not a punch with the knuckles) or an open palm, or better yet a rubber mallet while your helper turns the key. If noone is around connect the test mode connectors under the dash (black on obd2?) to cycle the fuel pump thrn go back and start hitting, and praying to Pleiades This trick has worked for almost a full year on a bmw lol! The last time i was on my way to Loveland pass to pick him up because the pump on his 325ix seemed to have finally gave up the ghost. But he called me after 20 minutes of hitting and the old girl got him home. I was all ready to put him up on subaru 4hi game too Edited January 16, 2019 by sparkyboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 $225 is not fair for a used pump. I sell them for $20. I usually have a few WRX/STI take outs and they aren't worth beans. $120 would have been fair for a used pump with install. I get new high volume AEM pumps for about $55 wholesale. They retail for about $100. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1997reduxe Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 The interference engine happened in 96, and even then it was easy to have a non interference in 96, some 96 engines were used in 97s like my old one. From what I remember the only true way to know was look inside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 96 2.2 is non interference. 96 2.5 is interference. 97 All engines are interference. Period. There are no exceptions to this rule in the USDM. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThosL Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 OK, not sure why the mechanic said he checked with the parts store and a new pump was $200 so he went with used. It looks like Advance has them for a lot less as their usual retail which you can get online discounts on: https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/c3/fuel-pump/15378?krypto=16ltsxXemOT95rflFF%2BrHWRYPSnT3x7uNZhTovA0LHvnnDsP98J5XOYlD1ZHqu8T7KUmuMp2NORkO58ms44gD8pzXB866lju8jVE1caVii9W2Y7TGID0EpCfo8ntzou4ybhIkrNqVnvrikZfFg%2BGbfT6TzZpdtMqor1o2uF2b2SwH3EleqoWJ1sqNaNIz%2Fq5KzeOJHDmM826GzNE%2FQMdG5YkLFQqBt95xDSnzLcpWLcN0gJalYK9Rim6ZfyVPSqsQycWRTxjcgkLQMqyrErdy%2Bz6IgXTrHaDsgYgkd0s642BMHkyICWoYuNyatXf1l2BMGLBwEJ2rrzoICbDdFXtUQ%3D%3D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmithmmx Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 14 hours ago, ThosL said: $225 was fair for a 97 2.5; quick turn around time; I don't know any shop around here who would have done it for under $300 and most don't put in used units, so not sure why experts are critical here on price when they said that valve cover, cam cover gasket replacement, etc. would be a lot more than the same mechanic did for $300 plus parts and threw in welding on exhaust and changing out a couple coolant system hoses. $225 for any pump installed and out the door same day is a good deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 A "regular" mechanic probably would conclude that from local pricing. But a Subaru mechanic - especially one familiar with modified turbo cars, etc would know that any old generic in-tank pump will easily fit with minor modifications and they cost much less. Even the high volume pumps are super cheap. Walbro, Deatschwerks, and AEM all make suitable pumps and it's likely someone in town has one. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkyboy Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said: A "regular" mechanic probably would conclude that from local pricing. But a Subaru mechanic - especially one familiar with modified turbo cars, etc would know that any old generic in-tank pump will easily fit with minor modifications and they cost much less. Even the high volume pumps are super cheap. Walbro, Deatschwerks, and AEM all make suitable pumps and it's likely someone in town has one. GD What is your opinion on the airtex pumps? I saw a buy one get one free, but $200? That's for a high boost v8 or inline six huh? Or for putting an engine on a dyno? The pump on my 95 ej22 is from an 80s Ford pickup truck so yea any old stinkin pump will work with these. Nothing beats carby with block mounted pump. I sucked my in tank filter (sock) into the fuel line once and that bastard was clogged solid... So roadside fuel line replacement? No, tow truck? No. Gas can full of gas and a 32 oz. Gatorade bottle. The rubber line into the pump is right there. Got me about a mile, the bottle fit perfect on the a arm. Drive a bit, stop and refill, repeat. And she got me home that way. The plastic they use for those bottles can handle gasoline. Edited January 18, 2019 by sparkyboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThosL Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 I work at a big box retailer with 100K plus products, today got some yet again with generators that won't start; I had to educate them on the dangers of alcohol in gas, I wonder how many of our Subaru problems are due to problem fuel? Running the car down to one gallon left or so? Remedies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.