czny Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said: Just use a complete 25D. Swap the pistons for 251's and use the 642 head gaskets. There's your 170 HP. No problem. You'll have a very hard time hitting anywhere near 160 with EJ22 heads. They just won't flow that much NA. The 25D manifold is compatible with the harness you are running. Just swap over the electronics. 22 heads are a waste of time. That's why Subaru didn't use them on the 2.5. Duh. GD GD, Without changing pistons in a '99 EJ25D block, because its already been refreshed, would 2002-2003 EJ25D SOHC head would work with that block? No problems with piston crown shape & valve layout? Which cyl head gasket would you recommend? Also 642, or thicker? Yes, I get the idea about squish. Still want to run with Delta 200 grind cams if possible with mechanical rockers, all from 97 ej22. EJ22 heads were chosen in yrs before these newer choices were readily available in self-serve yards in So Cal. EJ22 heads were the ones of choice in older threads as recent as 2017. Already have stripped down '96 ej22 harness, SOHC intake, crank & cam sprockets, ECM. Thanks. Edited January 31, 2019 by czny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 @czny it helps to tag @GeneralDisorder in your thread as this will throw him a notification, Just the same as you’ve been notified of the mention I’ve used here In my opinion, there’s nothing wrong with the EJ22 heads for this setup. What I presume GD was saying is that there is a better combination that gives better power etc. But ultimately, you’ve got to work with what you’ve got - or are willing to get. EJ22 heads may flow less and mean less overall power, but it’ll still move a vehicle at the end of the day... Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 12 minutes ago, el_freddo said: @czny it helps to tag @GeneralDisorder in your thread as this will throw him a notification, Just the same as you’ve been notified of the mention I’ve used here In my opinion, there’s nothing wrong with the EJ22 heads for this setup. What I presume GD was saying is that there is a better combination that gives better power etc. But ultimately, you’ve got to work with what you’ve got - or are willing to get. EJ22 heads may flow less and mean less overall power, but it’ll still move a vehicle at the end of the day... Cheers Bennie Yup, torque gets things moving whereas horsepower sustains speed. It wasn't that long ago, 2017, that GD posted in a similar thread for Frankenmotor builds that used EJ22 cyl heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 23 minutes ago, czny said: Yup, torque gets things moving whereas horsepower sustains speed. It wasn't that long ago, 2017, that GD posted in a similar thread for Frankenmotor builds that used EJ22 cyl heads. I won't get into the hp/torque metaphors, but people's opinions can change over time. Perhaps GD learned new information about the EJ25 cylinder heads that has swayed his opinion on what he would recommend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 10 hours ago, czny said: GD, Without changing pistons in a '99 EJ25D block, because its already been refreshed, would 2002-2003 EJ25D SOHC head would work with that block? No problems with piston crown shape & valve layout? Which cyl head gasket would you recommend? Also 642, or thicker? Yes, I get the idea about squish. Still want to run with Delta 200 grind cams if possible with mechanical rockers, all from 97 ej22. EJ22 heads were chosen in yrs before these newer choices were readily available in self-serve yards in So Cal. EJ22 heads were the ones of choice in older threads as recent as 2017. Already have stripped down '96 ej22 harness, SOHC intake, crank & cam sprockets, ECM. Thanks. 2002-03 EJ25 would be a 251 or 253, not a 25D And no you cannot use Cams from an early (90-98) EJ22e heads in the newer 99+ SOHC heads. Totally physycally different heads. 99+ sohc heads are bigger, more complicated (CAM case with like 27 bolts to disassemble, 3 different types of bolts and 2 of them love to break/strip.) I charge an extra 2 hours labor on 99+ Sohc head gasket jobs vs. an EJ22e. I would use the 97 22e heads. They are smaller, simpler, lighter, and easier to fit into the engine of older subarus. on a 2.5 block it will likely make over 150 hp which is PLENTY in an old EA body. Plus the big point of the "frankenmotor" combo is the high compression from tiny heads on big cyls. Improves the low end grunt of the engine. 25D heads are big and heavy, hard to adjust valve clearances (shim on bucket). And then it also wouldn't be a "Frankenmotor" so you don't get the compression bump that helps the low end. Unless the goal is %100 maximum top end HP, you don't need them. If you put 251 or 253 heads on it, you just basically made a 251/3 so not really a "frankenmotor" and you'd be better off to just get a whole 2000+ engine.....although those won't run easily off the 97 harness. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 Good. Will stick with 94 ej22 heads I've already got, Cometic hybrid gaskets(same ones you & I searched for a few years ago Dan) & "99 EJ25D lower end with the dished pistons. It's that same '96 harness w/o EGR you stripped for me yrs ago. '96 OBD2 Calif. donor vehicle. How's your Brother printer doing? '97 cams & rockers with Delta 200 grind per their recommendation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, czny said: Good. Will stick with 94 ej22 heads I've already got, Cometic hybrid gaskets(same ones you & I searched for a few years ago Dan) & "99 EJ25D lower end with the dished pistons. It's that same '96 harness w/o EGR you stripped for me yrs ago. '96 OBD2 Calif. donor vehicle. How's your Brother printer doing? '97 cams & rockers with Delta 200 grind per their recommendation. Hey! That was you! I had kinda forgot and jumbled up names since I left the board for a while. Printer works awesome. Used that harness yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 Working on a couple others again first. Then to the GL EJ swap. May think about later on rear suspension swap similar to your project in Off Road. But with a R180 4.11 diff & 2005 WRX STi LSD, axles & hubs. Likewise front suspension improvements too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 I’m looking for a 4.111:1 ratio r180. They literally don’t seem to exist. Unicorn poo?? I know they can be found in the front of the Datsun 720 4w4, but they run two ratios and aren’t exactly plentiful either! Side topic. Sorry! Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
czny Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, el_freddo said: I’m looking for a 4.111:1 ratio r180. They literally don’t seem to exist. Unicorn poo?? I know they can be found in the front of the Datsun 720 4w4, but they run two ratios and aren’t exactly plentiful either! Side topic. Sorry! Cheers Bennie That's fine Bennie. Nissan 720 4x4 PUs had 3.90, 4.11 & 4.37 ratios. 1984-88 Nissan 200SX had 4.11s. Was lucky to find one locally. Ring gear bolts are 10 mm in these early R180s so 12 mm bushings are needed to adapt to 2005 wrx sti LSDs. Check out hybridz forum. Edit: IIRC '82-'85 Nissan Maxima may have had R180 diff also Edited February 1, 2019 by czny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Yeah we used to use the 22E heads, but we don't anymore. The 25D heads are superior in every way. The 25D head is a turbo cylinder head easily capable of 500 HP in stock form. GD 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 2 hours ago, GeneralDisorder said: The 25D head is a turbo cylinder head easily capable of 500 HP in stock form. I've read that it's essentially the same head casting as the EJ20G engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, carfreak85 said: I've read that it's essentially the same head casting as the EJ20G engines. Close, but definitely different. EJ20G has larger valves with sodium filled stems. Also larger buckets and shims. In an EJ body car, I say go for GD's solid advise. But in an older EA body, it just get's alot harder to fit the damn thing in there so the small EJ22e heads are the easy choice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, carfreak85 said: I've read that it's essentially the same head casting as the EJ20G engines. Yes it's virtually identical. They just didn't machine the oil return pipe hole (press fit) and they have the coolant and oil feed ports blocked with threaded plugs. You can use EJ20K cams directly in them also. If you use a JDM 20G intake it bolts right up. They are a fabulous value considering what they are capable of if used correctly with proper tuning, compression, etc. They would make a beautiful E85 engine build. I am sure I could put well over 200 to the wheels with E85 and 25D heads. GD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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