StallonePanerai Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Hi Everyone! Before I start...I know, I know.... there are a ton of threads about this. I’m a little confused so I thought I would post here for forum member help. My car is a 84 brat, manual trans, EA81 motor. Not sure if it is the original motor but the block says EA81. I’m hearing the annoying valve tap. It gets worse as the RPM’s increase. I have only had this car about 6 months. The odometer says 105k but I don’t know if that’s true. I changed the oil with 20/50 Castro’s GTX. I’m thinking it’s to heavy and will change to 10/30 next time. Where is the best place for a tutorial on how to adjust the valves? From what I read it seems pretty easy and common. I’m thinking of doing it myself since I have all the tools, but I need a step by step tutorial. Or should I pay the dealer or a reputable mechanic? I get nervous because these cars are not like the newer cars today. Old school mechanics are hard to find nowadays Also how can I tell what EA81 motor I have for sure? I don’t see the gold sticker on the valve cover but after 35 years it probably fell off. The car is in excellent shape. Clean and rust free. It appears to be well taken care of. Runs strong and no signs of any other problems besides the engine tapping. Thank you in advance! Corey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee2 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 look into "How to keep your Subaru alive" http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/--Articles--/--Books--/ Chapter 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StallonePanerai Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 Ok thank you! I will read up on this! Today I drained the 20-50 engine oil. Used 3qts of 10-40 and 1qt of ATF and went on a 25 drive. Drained it and looked pretty clean. Installed 10-40 and a new filter. Seems like the tapping is not as loud. I’m still going to check the valve clearances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franbev Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 I always add a zinc additive with my fresh oil in my '85 Brat. I believe the EA-81 engine needs that. Todays oil doesn't have a zinc component like oil sold in the 80's 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 I would look for an oil that already has the ZDDP in it vs. adding a supplement to your oil. I'm also not a fan of running ATF in an engine. If your EA81 is not turbocharged, 20w50 is WAY too thick, unless you live in Death Valley during the summer only. 10w30 is fine, but look for something with more anti-wear additives in it than GTX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru2 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 23 minutes ago, carfreak85 said: If your EA81 is not turbocharged, 20w50 is WAY too thick, unless you live in Death Valley during the summer only. 10w30 is fine, but look for something with more anti-wear additives in it than GTX. Not according to the owners manuals. Subaru reccomends 20w50 for outside temperatures from 30 to 90 degrees F 20w50 is not thick enough for Death valley. Subaru wants you to use straight 40 weight above 90 degrees 10w30 is only good below 90 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Is this the 1984 owners manual? The oils they're referencing do not exist anymore (sure the weights are available, but those aren't the same oils that were being manufactured in the 80's). I think 30+ years on, you should be looking at the oils out on the market to make a choice, not the vehicle owner's manual (as someone who writes automotive owner's and service manuals for a living). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru2 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) Viscosity is viscosity.Nothing has changed for over 100 years. What do upgraded oils have to do with viscosity recomendations for a vintage engine? Point being, 20w50 is completely suitable for operation between 30-90 degrees and NOT "WAY too thick, unless you live in Death Valley during the summer only" like you asserted. Edited February 18, 2019 by naru2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 What I'm saying is the additives they put in oils 30+ years ago are bad for emissions and are no longer present in modern oils, unless you're using NOS oil from back in the day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyeights Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 3 hours ago, carfreak85 said: What I'm saying is the additives they put in oils 30+ years ago are bad for emissions and are no longer present in modern oils, unless you're using NOS oil from back in the day. Older engines and solid lifter cams still need Zinc among other things - You are so right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 18 hours ago, naru2 said: Point being, 20w50 is completely suitable for operation between 30-90 degrees and NOT "WAY too thick, unless you live in Death Valley during the summer only" like you asserted. 20w50 is a stupid thick oil for a Subaru, IMHO. Even the track day guys on NASIOC run 5w40, or there about. @GeneralDisorder what say you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru2 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 I think an opinion from the Subaru engineers is worth a lot more than yours. Funny,you are usually so quick to pull quotes from the factory manuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 You want the opinion of a Vehicle Design Engineer on what engine oil to run in your 35-year-old engine? Hey, good news! You're already talking to one... But then again, free advice is worth only what you paid for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru2 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 A "Vehicle Design Engineer " should not have any trouble explaining why his opinion trumps Subarus I have not heard anything yet. Face it,you blurted out something dumb ("20w50 is WAY too thick, unless you live in Death Valley during the summer only")and subsequently tried to defend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) HA! This is coming from a kid who thinks engine oil 100 years ago is the same as oil being used today. You gave me a chuckle, that's for sure! Subaru of America also recommends that you run a 0W-20 oil in their current engine lineup, but in other parts of the world specs a much thicker oil. (PSSST, I have an industry insider secret for you. Not all decisions are made in the best interest of the product. Sometimes, for example, a company will spec a super thin oil to improve their CAFE score, when the folks who designed the engine really intended it to run a thicker oil.) The owner's manual is a CYA by Subaru of America so that they have something to fall back on when some idiot runs 20W-50 engine oil in B.C. year round. They can point to their manual and say, "See, we never said to run that oil in those conditions!" Alright, let's do some oil fun! Just pulled up a 1984 EA81T BRAT on www.Redlinelineoil.com, can you guess what they recommend for your engine?...…. 10W-30. Just to make sure I didn't read that wrong, I pulled up the same info again, this time I asked AMSOIL about the EA81T engine. Holy balls, would you look at that, they also recommend 10W-30! Conspiracy! They do go a bit further, stating that in temps above 90*F, you should run straight 40 weight engine oil. OK, one more place to check, just to make sure there isn't any collusion going on with these boutique oil companies... Motul. Now, their "Oil Selector" tool didn't go back far enough to cover an EA81T engine, so I picked out a 2002 WRX. Guess what they recommend for "Normal" duty? SAE 5W-30. What do you suppose they recommend for "Severe duty" (i.e. Death Valley in the middle of summer)? Right again! 15W-50! For fun, I pulled up the owner's manual for my 2002 WRX. Page 11-13. Option 1 is 5w-30, which Subaru of America says is good from 100*F on down to -20*F. Option 2 is 10w-30 or 10W-40, which SoA says is good from 0*F up well past 100*F. As you can read in the graphic below: "IF THE VEHICLE IS USED IN DESERT AREAS, IN AREAS WITH VERY HIGH TEMPERATURES... USE OIL WITH THE FOLLOWING GRADE AND VISOCISITES: SAE 30, 40, 10W-50, 20w-40, 20w-50." So in effect, 20W-50 IS WAY TOO THICK for anything except towing and driving in Death Valley in the middle of the summer. The only time you should consider using that viscosity when ambient temps are "normal" would be if you're towing in the mountains, and even then, I'd probably recommend a 10W-50 for someone towing in B.C., where the hottest recorded temperature EVER RECORDED was 111*F in Lytton, B.C. on July 16, 1941. Face it @naru2, I blurted out something ACCURATE and subsequently had to defend it, with source material and data (something you failed to provide us). Edited February 20, 2019 by carfreak85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru2 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 It is clear who the idiot is here. WRXs are not ea-81s.We are talking ea81s. Why quote the owners manual for the WRONG CAR and dispute/ignore the owners manual for the CORRECT car? The question is not whether 10W30 is suitable,but,rather whether 20W50 is completely unsuitable like you said. I have heard nothing that invalidates the ea-81 owners manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) @naru2 If you can't read between the lines, I'm not going to spell it out for you. Both the EA81T and the EJ205 are flat tappet engines, in that sense, they are directly comparable, because modern, off the shelf, commonly available, inexpensive engine oil is no longer suitable for older designs of flat tappet engines. Your average engine oil in 1984 had loads more anti-wear additives in it than oil does today. You can dither on about viscosity all day kiddo, but the oil thickness doesn't mean jack if the pressure of the cam on the tappet is enough to scar those parts due to a lack of molybdenum, ZDDP and other anti-wear additives. The fact that the 1984 and 2002 owner's manuals no longer agree on viscosity/temperature should tell you that things have changed in the 18 years between the two engines... But ya know what, do whatever you 1984 owner's manual tells you to do. I'm sure lubrication technology has been stagnant for the last 35 years, because as they say, "Viscosity is viscosity!" Edited February 20, 2019 by carfreak85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru2 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I have heard nothing that invalidates the ea-81 owners manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 3 hours ago, carfreak85 said: Your average engine oil in 1984 had loads more anti-wear additives in it than oil does today. This. This invalidates the EA81 manual, and should be your starting point. Use the owner's manual as a very rough guide (at this age) and use critical thinking skills to apply new knowledge to the 35-year-old maintenance specs you found. I don't have an EA81 manual in front of me, but I promise you "Option 1" is NOT 20W-50 (I'll wager it's 10W-30, or there abouts). I'll check it the minute I get home today. If you want SoA's opinion on this subject, by all means, please contact them: Subaru Customer Service - 1 (800) 782-2783 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naru2 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I don`t see how a lack of anti wear additives makes modern 20w50 any less usable than modern 10w30 with the same lack of additives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitscars Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 There is a saying - that ANY oil is better than NO oil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rae houghton Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 So excuse my ignorance. is there such a thing as 0w-40? I have an old 1990 Loyale (L-Series) that has been tapping for 5 years....and still runs well. My mechanic, who specializes in Subaru s for the past 40+ years, says this is a common phenomenon and I could possibly try to do something about it, and it may still tap. So I use, as he recommends, 20w-50. My engine still taps, and I worry about it , but it still keeps running. I live in Queensland Australia, and temperatures above 30 celsius are common. In fact 30+ every day of January this year. So 20w-40 or 5w - 40 would all be better you are suggesting Carfreak85. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Those temps are higher than I normally see. Things that have fixed / or made lifter tick rare for me, in CT, USA- Reseal the oil pump, including the shaft seal. Reseal the engine, from the head gaskets up. Running Amsoil original 100% synthetic 10W40. Sometimes, not immediately, sometimes after the gunk from the previous owner gets cleaned out by the oil. NOTE - I am running EA82s, which are different, but known for lifter tick, so YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rae houghton Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 hey Dave T....Thanks for the thoughts, both for myself and Stallone Panerai and others. At the moment I am taking apart a parts car and want to get to the clutch and transmission safely. Perhaps you could direct me to some instructions, as my mechanics book is so detailed that it sometimes confuses me. I have jacked up the car and placed the differential on support so that I can move the propeller shaft. And have supplorted the engine. I don't have a hoist. And I don't have an engine hoist. So if you could direct me to a forum post (can't seem to get what I want) ....that would help me to get at and replace clutchplate safely, that would be very helpful. Thanks Rae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 Remove the y pipe and middle exhaust pipe se tion. The differential end of the prop shaft, there are 3 bolts in a flange. Remove those. Put something to catch it. 2 bolts remove the center bearing. Once the center is free, you can move it a little to get the rear flange apart, then the shaft will move rearward, and slide out of the transmission. On ea82 cars, my drive on "lift" made out of 4x8x16 concrete blocks and 2x12 planks gets the car 8 inches above the ground while on its wheels. 6 to 8 blocks make a pad for each wheel, and the planks span between them, and make ramps ro get uo on it. Use smaller block ro support the planks even with the block piles. Now you need to support the front of the engine, as it will want to tip down and forward, once the transmission is removed. It will also bind if you don't. A transmission jack, or a couple of the scissor jacks and a dolly, or even a piece of 1x12 and 4 or so pieces of 1" emt for rollers to support, move rearward out of the engine, then lower the transmission. It's a bit wobbly, to just use the jacks. so using something to make good supports / stabilizers between the jacks and the transmission is a good idea. Be sure to not be under it in case something slips. The transmisions are around a couple hundred pounds. I can lift 1 end when out in the open, but not much of anything when they are under the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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