Lightning Racer Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) This is on my dad's 2005 Outback LL Bean, 113K miles. Are there supposed to be (exterior or interior) retaining rings on the outer tie rod end boots like I see on pictures of some aftermarket replacements? The tie rod ends have no play, and the boots are not torn (unless they are supposed to continue tight across the bolt at the top?), but watery brown grease (presumably contaminated) oozes out the top when you rock/twist the tie rods. I assume the boots were better sealed and secured somehow when they were new, but maybe they were open at the top to begin with. I'm inclined to just replace them, but if the gap is supposed to be there, maybe I should just get a grease gun and needle and inject grease through the gap at the top? Please advise. Edited August 29, 2019 by Lightning Racer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) DOH! , nvrmd Edited August 30, 2019 by 1 Lucky Texan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 um, Texan - i believe he is talking about these... there should not be power steering fluid anywhere near these... to the OP - if you can rock them easily, they are worn out and should be replaced. you should not be getting grease, or anything else out of them, either. the bottom (wide part) usually does have a retaining ring, sometimes the top does, sometimes not, but either way, the rubber should be pretty snug against the the rod coming out of it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, Lightning Racer said: This is on my dad's 2005 Outback LL Bean, 113K miles. Are there supposed to be (exterior or interior) retaining rings on the outer tie rod end boots like I see on pictures of some aftermarket replacements? The tie rod ends have no play, and the boots are not torn (unless they are supposed to continue tight across the bolt at the top?), but watery brown grease (presumably contaminated) oozes out the top when you rock/twist the tie rods. I assume the boots were better sealed and secured somehow when they were new, but maybe they were open at the top to begin with. I'm inclined to just replace them, but if the gap is supposed to be there, maybe I should just get a grease gun and needle and inject grease through the gap at the top? Please advise. It’s benign. They do that, I ignore them and have seen zero correlation to issues. Of course you can just check them real quick with every oil change rather than believe some unknown possible whack job on the internet (me). It won’t take long and you’ll realize it’s not progressing and there’s no symptoms. That’s a normal Subaru tie rod end, circlip at the base and not at the top. All Subaru tie rod ends are like this for 40 years. You can probably inject grease with a needle fitting if you want but I’ve never bothered. OEM outer joint failure is almost unheard of, Ive never seen one with play or replaced one for any reasons except torn boots or damaged threads. They all “rock”, they’re suppose to articulate. I almost guarantee you don’t have any wear, failure or actual play in the joint itself beyond what you’ll find that one does the moment you remove it from a new box and install it. Go to a new car dealer and pry low mileage ones - they’ll rock too. That you’re suggesting both sides have identical characteristics and mention no drivability symptoms, points to this being the case, and they’re functioning like millions of other outbacks of the past 20 years on the road today with original tie rod ends. Edited August 30, 2019 by idosubaru 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Racer Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 Already replaced. I had a wheel alignment scheduled for the car today, so I stopped by Autozone and picked up a couple non-OEM outer tie rod ends, in order to get them on before the alignment. I know they are supposed to articulate/rock. I only mentioned that because I was changing a steering rack boot, trying to break loose the tie rod jam nut, and that's when I noticed the tie rod end didn't look ideal. I guess I could have stayed with the original tie rod ends, especially for a sunny California car for my dad. But they are replaced, and that's for the (marginal) better. I'll keep this in mind for my two Subarus though. Thread drift, but I needed an alignment because the camber was thrown off on the right front after I changed the struts/shocks/mounts/bellows all around (KYB) and also the front lower control arms (Moog, got them because of torn rear bushings). I noticed when I changed that strut that even with the camber bolt in the original rotational position, the camber at the brake disc was shifted by quite a bit (measured with a phone app unloaded with the wheel off, just as a quick before/after strut change comparison). That caused the steering wheel to be offset rotationally to the left after the strut change, even though the toe was good and remained good. Spinning the camber bolt all the way around didn't get the camber at the brake disc back to where it was before. The alignment shop couldn't get it there either (now at +1.5 degrees, spec is +0.2 to +1.2, left side is at +0.9) Said they would have to order a camber kit. Does it sound like KYB drilled the holes in the strut in the wrong place?Can't think of anything else. Oh well, I'll get the camber kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) I don’t know what it is but doubt it’s the struts? Is the ride height different? Measure from center of axle nut to fender arch and compare driver and passenger side. Could any of the parts be the wrong and different - like for an Impreza/forester/legacy instead of outback? How far/much time between strut change and alignment was the vehicle driven to allow it to settle? Tie rods and ball joints are just about the scariest parts to have fail, I’ve seen 4 non-Subaru failures, I stick with Subaru for those. Edited August 30, 2019 by idosubaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Racer Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 Well it's either the KYB struts or Moog control arms, because it was an immediate change in the camber after swapping those, which I noticed before I even put the wheel back on. More likely the struts just because of how they are made compared to how the control arms are made. They are the correct parts according to RockAuto (KYB 339098, Moog RK622030 if you want to check). The ride height is 1/4" higher on that side (RF), but that's probably within tolerances. Right rear is higher than the left rear by more (3/8"). It's not a matter of the struts settling or not (~100 mile driven). The camber change was reflected immediately in the first drive after the strut change in cocking the steering wheel several degrees to the left (CCW), when it was perfectly straight before the change and also drove perfectly straight. I know steering wheel alignment is more associated with toe changes, but I hadn't touched the tie rods at that point, and the car still drove straight afterwards, just with the steering wheel cocked to the left. The alignment shop corrected the rear alignment slightly, but couldn't really change the affected RF camber. The were able to move it from 1.6 to 1.5 degrees before hitting the adjustment limit. Thus the recommendation of a camber bolt kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) weird! Did you replace the top mounts or springs - if so, with what? Do you have the old strut bodies and control arms you could measure and compare? or compare measurements side to side or to the FSM for the control arm. could it be bent? Packaging want damaged! Ride height doesn’t seem like the causative agent but maybe measure ride height and compare to the FSM specs at each wheel to see where it’s at at least. Maybe there’s a weak spring, though I don’t think 09 and earlier OB are prone to camber induced ride height issues. Edited August 30, 2019 by idosubaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Racer Posted August 31, 2019 Author Share Posted August 31, 2019 I reused the springs and replace the top mounts with the KYB part (same new mount used on the LF without issue). I already disposed of the old parts. New parts and packaging did not appear to be bent or damaged in shipping in any way. Unlike for my own cars, I didn't download the pirate FSM for this car, and don't feel like searching hundreds of pages in a non-indexed pdf. No point in thinking about it more. Plus my long visit to my folk's place is ending soon. I'm just going to have the alignment shop put in the camber bolt kit to get the alignment in spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 my money is on the Moog Control arm.. never had an issue with KYB struts throwing alignment that far out of whack - and I have used them on multiple vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerGloyale Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 3 hours ago, heartless said: my money is on the Moog Control arm.. never had an issue with KYB struts throwing alignment that far out of whack - and I have used them on multiple vehicles. +1 Strut is a straight line, and KYB is the OE manufacturer for Subaru struts. Moog, on the other hand, is an off brand maker of everything and the kitchen sink. Personally I would have changed the bushing int hte stock arm rather than swap a whole suspension part. My money is on the Moog arm being junk. Off by 1/4" would cause the issues your having. The one other though I had was if the upper spring plate rotation isn't correct relation to the bottom perch, it can cause funny ride height and rubbing of spring in turns. shouldn't affect toe though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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