Zoltan Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 So on a a 2001 H6 Outback Wagon Auto, the driveshaft to the rear diff snapped at its front U joint.. This caused it to smack the auto tranny gear selector and broke some white plastic bits inside of it. This made the gear selector all wonky and looks like it was unable to shift into park. I was not driving the car when this happened and have no feedback from the driver. ,I took out the driveshaft without any problems but the yoke is stuck in the tranny. Wont come out, I banged and pryed on it. I removed the entire gear selector assembly and now its just the gear selector cable hanging. The car is on 4 jackstands with all 4 tires in the air. The front tires spin no matter what gear I select with the cable. I have crawled under the tranny and tried moving the lever by hand and it makes no difference. I'm not really sure what is happening? Has me confused. I thought it would be an easy fix. Any ideas?. Oh yeah also if I finally manage to get the yoke out and fix the gear selector problem, does anyone happen to know if the sedan and wagon driveshaft are the same for the 2001 H6 Outbacks? . I have received conflicting info on this. I will be going to my local pick and pull for all parts. Again thanks for taking the time to read this, and any input is greatly appreciated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Sedan and outback H6 shafts should be the same. The gear selector, how could the drive shaft hit that? I haven’t seen that. Before it broke it would have had play and caused consistent impacts on the input shaft mating surfaces inside the trans. It’s effectively hammered in place after thousands of hits with an impact gun. Youll need force to get it out. Maybe significant force. Or you may need to replace the receiving end inside the rear extension housing. Luckily that’s not that hard, the housing slides off the back of the trans from under the car, don’t have to remove the trans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 The lever on the side of the transmission has a roll pin that connects the inner linkage to the shaft (and therefore the outer linkage). I suspect when the driveshaft grabbed the shift cable, it yanked it back so hard that it sheared off that pin. So regardless of what you do with the external linkage, the trans is still in 1st. I think this pin is accessible/visible from the pan without removing anything else. When you move the linkage, do you feel the separate gear positions? Yes, all 00-04 Legacy and Outback Auto transmission driveshafts are the same, regardless of body style or engine (manual transmission uses a longer driveshaft), and in fact any Legacy/Outback AT shaft from 1990-2004 should work (I used a 2007 shaft in our 2004 temporarily, but it's a bit longer and I was worried it would bottom out in the transmission). Some sources say that the Outback center carrier is shaped differently to account for the small body lift in the rest of the drivetrain, in practice, I noticed no difference other than a small rubber bushing on the mounts that spaces it down by about 1/4". There's a chance that the yoke being stuck in the transmission means internal damage, but you can't get in there to address that without removing the yoke, so it's just a matter of applying enough force. Maybe a slide hammer? Considering that and the linkage damage, I'd probably be checking the local yards for a decent used transmission.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Thins issue with the yoke breaking should have been diagnosed and sorted well before it was allowed to let go. There would have been loads of signs of this issue - noises, oscillating vibrations... Best of luck fixing the issue. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltan Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 OK thanks for eveyones input. Since I dont have a slide hammer I will be heading of to pick and pull (one mile away) . I think i will do what idosubaru said..... " Or you may need to replace the receiving end inside the rear extension housing. Luckily that’s not that hard, the housing slides off the back of the trans from under the car, don’t have to remove the trans" So my question is can I take that part out of any 2000 to 2004 Outback or Legacy Automatic or does it have to be an H6 mode My second question is since the front wheels turn and the engine starts am I correct in assuming that the tranny is stuck in nuetral? And to answer Numbchux, I do feel seperate postions when I move the selector lever. I will compare my levers to the ones on an undamaged car at pick and pull. I want to figure this problem out. Car has no rust and 181 000 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Zoltan said: So my question is can I take that part out of any 2000 to 2004 Outback or Legacy Automatic or does it have to be an H6 mode Has to be an H6 (see below). H6 has VTD rear, H4s have MPT. People have swapped VTDs into MPT trans so I guess you could go the opposite way and install an MPT into VTD...but that’s a downgrade and there may be a few work arounds or issues to contend with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Answers in red 2 hours ago, Zoltan said: OK thanks for eveyones input. Since I dont have a slide hammer I will be heading of to pick and pull (one mile away) . I think i will do what idosubaru said..... Regardless of the tool, you will have to remove that yoke from the transmission to disassemble, slide hammer would be far more effective, they're not terribly expensive, and many auto parts stores rent them. " Or you may need to replace the receiving end inside the rear extension housing. Luckily that’s not that hard, the housing slides off the back of the trans from under the car, don’t have to remove the trans" So my question is can I take that part out of any 2000 to 2004 Outback or Legacy Automatic or does it have to be an H6 mode See comment below My second question is since the front wheels turn and the engine starts am I correct in assuming that the tranny is stuck in nuetral? No. The neutral start switch is in the linkage, but it's absolutely possible that transmission internally is somewhere else (my bet would be 1st, as that's where the cable would end up with a good yank). When you say the front wheels turn, do you mean freely (like it's not getting into park), or actually driven? Have you tried running it through the gears with the engine running? And to answer Numbchux, I do feel seperate postions when I move the selector lever. I will compare my levers to the ones on an undamaged car at pick and pull. Alright, the detent spring is attached to the internal lever through that roll pin. So that kind of rules that out, although it's possible that just the range switch has enough of a detent that you might feel it. Either way, the center transfer issue is relatively easy, I wouldn't worry about that at all until you're sure the rest of the transmission works as it should. I would SERIOUSLY be considering just getting a used transmission, and not messing with any of this. I want to figure this problem out. Car has no rust and 181 000 miles. Absolutely, I'd fix it. That's fewer miles than any of my 4 BH Outbacks. 7 minutes ago, idosubaru said: Has to be an H6 (see below). H6 has VTD rear, H4s have MPT. People have swapped VTDs into MPT trans so I guess you could go the opposite way and install an MPT into VTD...but that’s a downgrade and there may be a few work arounds or issues to contend with. In the US anyway, only the H6 VDC models have the VTD AWD, the other models (LL Bean, anniversary, etc.) have MTD, and those transmissions are identical to the 4-cylinder ones (might want to check the axle ratio, as I think H6s got 4.111s and H4 ATs got 4.444s). So, assuming this car doesn't have the VTD, the parts should be very easy to swap. The VTD and MPT transfers are mechanically interchangeable, but electronically not. The only case I saw of someone retrofitting a VTD transfer into an MPT car was not fully functional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 And just as an anecdote. Here's how my '01 VDC came to me: 20190602_191605 by Numbchux, on Flickr Front ujoint broke at fairly low speed (20-30mph, according to the PO). Ripped the heat shield off, beat up the exhaust pretty bad, and mangled the rear oxygen sensor. I can absolutely see how with more speed, or just different luck, that shaft would have been kicked up into the shift cable and body-side linkage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltan Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 Ok so again thanks for everyones input. If you look at my pics I attached you can see that my front u joint is in the same shape as Numbchux's lol I checked online and my pick pull does have two 2002 H6 Sedans. I took out my receiving end and I will replace that. I am stil a bit unsure of the selector lever on the tranny, but I think the roll pin in is still in (see pic) I moved it around some more and it seems to be in gear as it moves the wheels in opositte directions as well as the output sharft of the tranny. I'm sorry but I do understand what Numbchux is saying about the detent spring. This is my first tranny work and Im not really a quick learner. I do not give up easy though so hopefully I can fix this. What do think about me just putting in a used receiveng end and an console shift assembly. Is there a way to check if the tranny is good? Is is a high probability that the tranny has been damaged? If you look at one the the pics of the receiveing end one of the bands had fallen out. Is this norma ? Or is it an indicator of the fact that it has been damaged by the broken driveshaft or me banging on it to try to get the yoke out. I cant upload even one pic as it says the file is to big. Sorry about that. Not sure how to make a pics a smaller file size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Oh right, only the VDCs got VTD. OP you understood that - the H6 donor trans needs to match yours as either VDC (which has the VTD set up) or non-VDC (which has MPT)? i was picturing the select lever way up front on the passenger side of the trans, but I guess he’s talking about the cabin side of the cable, under the gear shift is another story being further back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltan Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 Ok Now im a bit confused. First of all what does "OP" mean. Second, My car is a 01 Outback H6 VDC ,auto tranny. I have take out the receiving end of the tranny with the stuck yoke from the drive shaft. So do I need to take one from a car with VDC or will any H6 do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester2002s Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 OP = Original Poster PO = Previous Owner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltan Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 Thanks forester2002s. Ok I read things over again and now understand that I have to get the `receiving end from a VDC H6, 2000 to 2004 sedan or wgn. . There are 2 sedans and One wgn in my local pick and pull. So i think my odds are good. Thanks again to everyone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 You need a rear extension housing (the large rear section of the transmission) parts from a 01-04 VDC H6. And driveshaft as Numbchux said earlier, lots of options on that. Like the driveshaft the shifter assembly is all the same with lots of options. Check the ujoints in the shafts and take the smoothest one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltan Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 Ok Idosubaru. Thats what I understood but the conformation is much appreciated. Do I need to get a new rear extension housing gasket from subaru or can I just make one with "the right stuff" gasket maker. If I need the gasket from Subaru does it go on dry? I may have put a tiny indent or two on the tranny. Thanks again for the advise. ' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 A detent lever has a series of notches and has a spring that pushes against it. This is the "clunk" you feel as you move from one gear to the next. Here's a good picture of a GM lever: The notches on the left are where the detent spring/roller rides. The hole on the far right is for the linkage that puts it in park. And there's a roll pin through it that holds it to the shift shaft. This is all internal to the transmission, definitely requires removing the transmission pan, maybe valve body as well. On a subaru, I'm not sure if there's any mechanical linkage that selects the various gears, or just back to the park pawl. I'm extremely unclear on your symptoms of whether the transmission is damaged or not. And it sounds like you've already disassembled the transmission, so you can no longer test it. There are hundreds of ways to resize an image. Google it. Or upload to a different site (I use Flickr now, you can click the "share" icon on the picture, and then copy the BBCode and past it here and the picture will display). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, Zoltan said: Ok Idosubaru. Thats what I understood but the conformation is much appreciated. Do I need to get a new rear extension housing gasket from subaru or can I just make one with "the right stuff" gasket maker. If I need the gasket from Subaru does it go on dry? I may have put a tiny indent or two on the tranny. Thanks again for the advise. ' I'd use the Subaru gasket. There's a shim at the back of the bearing support, I'd wonder if gasket thickness matters for that, and potential for sealant entry inside the trans. But I always use Subaru gaskets there so I wouldn't know. My guess for practical application and results, is that it probably doesn't matter and those concerns are insignificant. So I wouldn't recommend it but I wouldn't be surprised if it worked. The gasket is installed dry and on clean mating surfaces, as is the case with almost all Subaru gaskets. Edited October 24, 2019 by idosubaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltan Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 Ok. Understood. I will get the Subaru Gasket. I will report back on how this turns out. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltan Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 I went to pick and pull and got a new rear extension housing, driveshaft, and complete shifter assembly from a H6 VDC sedan. One question I have is do I have to do anything the the steel rings in the extension housing. I notice that they are loose and seem to move around. I was much more carefull taking this one off. I did not bang it much, just took my time and pried it off. So any suggestion or links on writeups on what to do with these steel rings in the extension housing before I put it on the tranny? I'm not really sure what they do and how trhey will be held in place. Tranny Fluid Pressure, I guess. But this is still worrying me . THanks again for eveyone helping out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) I don’t recall steel rings floating around or anything loose when assembling them. Are they the diameter of a quarter or dessert plate? You don’t mean the thin washers I mentioned earlier do you? Get the FSM section (Factory Service Manual) from Subaru and follow it. With a a few minutes searching you can get 00-04 online easily for free. Edited October 25, 2019 by idosubaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 bookmark this page for future reference... http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltan Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 The steel Rings/Bands are the dia of a dessert plate and are located twards the rear of the car (in the extension housing. I will now take a look at the service manaul. Thanks Again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltan Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 I will figure out how to compress a picture or post it. I think it would be best if you guys could see what I am taking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltan Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 I posted some pics on Flickr and I am having trouble figuring out how to get them here. Have spent 45 minutes doing this. A bit frustrating. Im not a comptuter person. Oh well, I have run out of time for now, will have to try again later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltan Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 I just watched a video on u tube. 4AT/Phase 2 Teardown. It ssems that on both my car and the pick pull car, when the rear extension housing came off the tranny, the transfer clutch stayed in the extension housing and not on the tranny. So some of the clutch pack rings are loose. II wonder if my VDC makes it a bit different? I will dig out my old digital camera and figure out how to post some pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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