Subaru Forester 2006 - 154k - change transmission oil???

[Stirletz1]

Hi there guys, I just bought an 2006 Forester, automatic transmission, with 154k miles in it. A friend of mine who is a mechanic has recommended that I take it to a professional shop and have the transmission oil changed. I called one such place and the guy there flat out told me not to do it, therefore losing my business but strangely gaining my trust... Any thoughts?

[brus brother]

Do you have any idea of the maintenance that was done prior to your ownership?

Did you check the fluid level? It should be done with the engine running and after having been warmed up and driven through the gears.

How does the at fluid look/smell? It should be pinkish in color (not brown) and not have a burnt smell.

It isn't all that difficult to change. Really not any more difficult than changing the oil if you are comfortable with that.

Routine changes are important as the fluid does degrade over time and is meant to lubricate moving parts.

 

[lmdew]

1+

[Stirletz1]

The previous owner said that it was total dealer service, go figure what that means.

My guy checked the color of the transmission oil and said that its NOT TERRIBLE.... and also told me that this kind of change can in no way be done in the same way as a regular oil change. There is actually a special machine that is needed to pull out ALL of the old oil completely (it doesn't drain entirely from the sump alone, the way engine oil does.) He said that if you don't use the special machine to pull out the oil a large quantity will remain. This added to the new transmission oil added will create an untenable volume inside the transmission, which will trash it within 20k miles. The local mechanic in Brooklyn here confirmed this fact. 

 

[brus brother]

"NOT TERRIBLE"??

Is that a comforting diagnosis?

Very few of us do the machine method where you change it all out i.e. running a pump and replacing the total volume in a closed loop.

Doing the simple drain, yes you will leave some of the old ATF fluid in there but if done correctly, you will not be overfilling it since you will be only replacing as much as you take out, roughly 4+ quarts.

Think of it this way, when you exhale, you do not completely empty your lungs of the "old" air and on the next breath, you only inhale as much as you exhaled. You don't over-inhale and explode (if done properly).

Get it? The remaining "old" air over successive breaths gradually mixes with the new air and you keep on living.

I have 200K on my 2005 and 140K on my 2008 Outbacks and do the simple maintenance like oil and transmission fluid changes myself. I've heard too many horror stories of fast service shops mistakenly draining the transmission and then overfilling the oil!

Good thing is that, as you report, it has been dealer serviced so they likely had more done than what was needed to be done and the car is likely in good shape for now. I cringe when I sit at the dealer and listen to the hard sell to unsuspecting customers.

You probably can get a history of the maintenance if you know the dealer used and go from there. 

All that being said, there are many here who are pros, some with real shops, and others like myself that would rather do the simple things  and know they were done right instead of sitting at a dealer for hours on end waiting for them to change the blinker fluid and charge me through the nose for the privilege. 

Depending on where you live in Bklyn, you may not have the luxury of being able to work on your car but if you do, it isn't that difficult to do the simple stuff.

Capeesh?  

 

 

[el_freddo]

As for the fluid left in the the torque converter you can either do a series of fluid changes in quick succession to rid the trans of old fluid. 

Or another method that might work is one commonly used by Pajero owners but requires two ppl. Firstly, work out which line on the oil cooler is the OUT line, disconnect this and hang in a collection bucket/pan. Have the second person start the engine and let it run, the pump in the trans will pump out most of the fluid. Once the flow reduces/splutters the first person yells out to the second person to shut off the engine. 

Drain the rest of the pan, replace filter and refill with the given amount of fluid that came out. Check the levels again after a short drive. 

Now with all of this, I am yet to do this with our Pajero, but it’s on the list since I don’t know the history of the fluid in the trans. 

Let me know if this method won’t work or will do detrimental damage to the trans (looks @GeneralDisorder and @FerGloyale)

Cheers 

Bennie

[Rampage]

The Factory Service Manual recommends changing transmission fluid by using the drain plug and to replace the amount taken out. Then check it idling and hot.

Put in a little less than you drained out and start it. Check and add as it warms up.

Get a white paper towel and put a drop of fresh ATF on it then pull the dipstick and put that beside it and compare look and smell. Keep in mind, if they put a Full Synthetic in it, it will smell way different than regular ATF.

If your transmission, torque converter and cooling lines are completely empty it, would take 9.2 to 10.1 quarts depending on the engine size.

On our 95 and 97 4EAT, if I drop the pan and remove the pipe that runs under the filter, I put almost 8 quarts back in it, and it is supposed to hold 8.4.

[idosubaru]

2 hours ago, Stirletz1 said:

The previous owner said that it was total dealer service, go figure what that means.

My guy checked the color of the transmission oil and said that its NOT TERRIBLE.... and also told me that this kind of change can in no way be done in the same way as a regular oil change. There is actually a special machine that is needed to pull out ALL of the old oil completely (it doesn't drain entirely from the sump alone, the way engine oil does.) He said that if you don't use the special machine to pull out the oil a large quantity will remain. This added to the new transmission oil added will create an untenable volume inside the transmission, which will trash it within 20k miles. The local mechanic in Brooklyn here confirmed this fact. 

 

That’s both true and not true.

First - definitely change the fluid. That EAT trans is a robust beast of a machine, they’re great transmissions. Definitely ensure it has good fluid in it.  

It can be drained and refilled just like the engine. Draining the trans only removes 4 out of 13 quarts so do it 3 times, driving some between each change, and you’re done.

A shop can’t be expected to do all that. But a shop could do 3 trans fluid changes with the next three oil changes in a row and over the course of 1-3 years you’d have your trans fluid change. 

A shop may not do that because they don’t want to mix old and new fluid. It doesnt matter but they can’t keep track of good trans and ford exploders.  

Theres other options too but suffice to say this isn’t complicated.  

1. Change the trans fluid just like oil. 

2. Or have them use the machine. If he won’t, someone else will. 

[idosubaru]

Also if you’re worried about it - let the dealer do it. They’re doing Subaru transmissions on a regular basis.  No big deal. 

[Stirletz1]

Thank you guys for all the advice. There's definitely a lot of different methods as I can tell from the responses but the consensus seems to be that the shop guy whom I called is worried about something that does not worry any of you and that I should definitely change the transmission oil. Now its up to me to decide which method is best. I still haven't read the manual by the way which I intend to do before I take any course of action anyways. But in general I am curious to know how often do you guys change Transmission Fluid on your machines?

While reading the replies this question has also occurred: What happens if I cant find out whether last used TF was Synthetic or Mineral based? Will I damage the machine if I choose the incorrect one? Can harm come from mixing the two?

Also if there anyone in Brooklyn who has a trusted guy who is not a dealer to whom you entrust your Subaru maintenance please do share!

Edited October 27, 2019 by Stirletz1

[Stirletz1]

On 10/25/2019 at 9:39 PM, Rampage said:

The Factory Service Manual recommends changing transmission fluid by using the drain plug and to replace the amount taken out. Then check it idling and hot.

Put in a little less than you drained out and start it. Check and add as it warms up.

Get a white paper towel and put a drop of fresh ATF on it then pull the dipstick and put that beside it and compare look and smell. Keep in mind, if they put a Full Synthetic in it, it will smell way different than regular ATF.

If your transmission, torque converter and cooling lines are completely empty it, would take 9.2 to 10.1 quarts depending on the engine size.

On our 95 and 97 4EAT, if I drop the pan and remove the pipe that runs under the filter, I put almost 8 quarts back in it, and it is supposed to hold 8.4.

Which Model do you have? And what is ATF? Sorry, I am new to cars... this is my first car I've been a motorcyclist/cold weather car rent guy my whole life until this point.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Stirletz1

[1 Lucky Texan]

ATF = automatic transmission fluid

[brus brother]

5 hours ago, Stirletz1 said:

Which Model do you have? And what is ATF? Sorry, I am new to cars... this is my first car I've been a motorcyclist/cold weather car rent guy my whole life until this point.

Start with any notes the previous owner left that might lead you to his dealer. Then check whether they used synthetic or dino ATF. If no notes, call Subaru of America and they can lead you in the right direction. For example, give them your vin and ask if they did the Tekata airbag recall and what dealer performed the recall.
Your Forrester is high enough off the ground that you can get a piece of cardboard and slide yourself underneath to drain the fluid. You'll need a long neck funnel to reach the trany dipstick hole to refill.
Buy a 5 pack of crush washers at the dealer though I have been using the same old one for years without leakage.
I use genuine Subaru AT fluid. Cost is not that much more than generic. But others here may point you to another brand same as genuine packaged under another name.
As others have suggested, after you compare overall cost and your time, decide whether you want to do it yourself. It is dirt simple and you will be done in less time than it will take to drive to the dealer.
Oh and if you didn't know, stores like Autozone will take the old fluid to recycle. Don't dump it down the sewer grates. The alligators hate that stuff!

 

[Rampage]

7 hours ago, Stirletz1 said:

Which Model do you have? And what is ATF? Sorry, I am new to cars... this is my first car I've been a motorcyclist/cold weather car rent guy my whole life until this point.

My wife is a Rural Carrier for the Post Office and the 95 and 97 are Right Hand Drive Legacy wagons AWD with EJ22 and automatic.

If the tranny oil does not smell burnt, just do a drain and fill.

Found this on Valvoline's web site. 

Is it OK to mix synthetic ATF with a conventional and/or synthetic blend ATF?
Yes. Synthetic ATF and conventional fluids are 100 percent compatible with each other.

I never expected that, but I trust Valvoline. In the early 70's I read an article that said they had the best 20-50 Racing Motor Oil on the market. Within 5 tests all other racing oils broke down, it took 2 more tests to get the Valvoline to start to break down.

[1 Lucky Texan]

hasn't ATF has been 'synthetic' for a long time ?