1991 XT6 won’t idle, runs rough

[toomanynooks]

Let me preface this by saying I don’t know a thing about cars and I tend to be long winded.  

anyway, recently I bought a 91 XT6 with the manual transmission.  I’m technically the 5th owner, but the person I got it from didn’t do much to it nor did he have it very long.  The person before him (who I will refer to as the previous owner) had the car for 8 years and did $3k worth of work to it.  P.O. stated that the car “runs rough and has since I purchased it.”  
 

anyhow, the car is hard to start and I need to pump the gas to get it going (as if it’s carbureted).  It will idle for a minute and then die.  And to be honest, to me it sounds like a frickin lawnmower.  I can drive it, but I need to keep my foot on the throttle when it’s not in gear otherwise it will die.  Crazy I know, but I drove it 4 hours to get it home and it definitely ran rough, I could feel it bucking & misfiring, but as long as I didn’t let it stall out... I made it home.  
 

Also, the muffler was replaced almost a year ago, but it is currently very loud anyway, yet it’s hardly been driven.  I have a long list of work performed by the P.O. and it looks like they touched upon all the normal idling issues (that I have read about on here anyway), coolant temp sensor, MAF, IACV, timing belts, head gaskets, etc etc.  (the imgur link at the end has the list of all the work done) 

Im hoping it’s a simple issue but considering all the work the P.O. did. on the car and the fact that it’s been running rough the whole time, I’m a bit nervous... Sorry to ramble, but I wanted to include as much info as possible if I’m gonna ask for help here.  I’m considering taking it to the Subaru dealer, but I don’t know if they’re gonna even know what to do with this weird thing and I’m nervous about how much it’s gonna cost me if I do that.  Ideally I could find someone who knows these cars to look at it.  Im in the northeast.  
 

I saw a thread on here about how the timing belts can commonly be installed incorrectly and I’m wondering if that’s the case.  The 2nd owner bought new belts before selling it to the person in Maine, (Which COULD explain “runs rough and has since I purchased it” if they were put in wrong?), yet that’s a lot of people to be working on it and not catching any sort of error.

Where should I go from here?
 

 

Link to pics and repair info, and a short running video:

https://imgur.com/a/50xmXpv

[DaveT]

First question, confirm which engine it has.  

Keep in mind these are rare versions of cars that many parts are NLA even for the common versions.

Finding a pro mechanic shop that will know what to do with one or even touch one is going to be a challenge and likely expensive. 

[toomanynooks]

8 minutes ago, DaveT said:

First question, confirm which engine it has.  

Keep in mind these are rare versions of cars that many parts are NLA even for the common versions.

Finding a pro mechanic shop that will know what to do with one or even touch one is going to be a challenge and likely expensive. 

It’s the 2.7, ER27 if memory serves. (I mean it’s definitely an XT6 with the original engine)

oh boy what have I gotten myself into?  Haha

my preference would be to make this car as original as possible, but if not, so be it.  I’m not giving up either way (edit: what I mean to say is, if I need to go the restomod route I will)

 

Edited November 9, 2019 by toomanynooks
I don’t type good

[Dee2]

It might be starving for fuel or have a clogged fuel filter or a failing fuel pump.  Check the fuel pressure to see if it meets spec.

[Steptoe]

Need to analyse stuff before throwing stuff at it ( mind you, I know a mechanic with 50 years on the job still does this !)

Do you want to buy tools to learn or want to take it to a workshop and pay them?

Hard start you describe sounds like an old fuel pump on its way out, as well as possible blockages in fuel filters etc as Dee pointed out as I picked this text out on my tablet

Need to start somewhere

I would T in a fuel pressure /oil pressure gauge after fuel filter and observe...basically looking for 36 psi

You could pay a shop to just do this. If a pump is to be replaced is best and for warranty, to clean out tank and or fit a prefilter to save new pump from getting old tank spoob

First thing last, so many find the first step for  a check up

Learn to do a cylinder compression test on everything, even daily driver going well. It even beats OBD2 diagnostic systems on many cars.

I even check my whipper snipper, lawn mower and blower and record results. Learn cold, operating temp, add oil company tests

If I could do a signature in this forum I think it would read

"Do a compression test and report back"

Edited November 9, 2019 by Steptoe

[Steptoe]

Oh, sugar, the er0tic and adult content warning was applicable on that link !

Should have read it first !

From here on in, anyone that tests something, have them record the result for you to post up and compare to specs

Ask for a link to online manuals if you don't have already in some form

Someone may have missed something

I didn't see comp test done or results EDIT until second read "erratic engine compression"

OK. Need to do this yourself. Buy a compression gauge, maybe a thin wall plug socket 3/4" or hope someone fitted 5/8" plugs

If you want, ship it to me, I'm up for a challenge

Edited November 9, 2019 by Steptoe

[Steptoe]

I have once or twice had a rocker on EA82 slip out on assembly cause grief before start up but do to think this it problem.

Cylinder leak down test. Google the theory and process

[Steptoe]

Need to look at why most recent report of erratic compression is there.

Erratic suggests a tech got different results for same cylinder(s) unable to work out why

Reminds me of an EA82T that a guy had trouble with , similar sounding problem made worse by boost

An ER27 should have been labelled as EA27 as it is just an extended fuel injected EA82

I ended up with the heads of that never sorted EA82T and found worn valve guide causing one valve to likely get stuck off centre from random ( or erratic) time to time

I think with time and effort you ( in your overalls) will isolate at least one cause to one of six cylinders. Unless you have buckets of coin to keep throwing at it, might be best you learn inhere, step by step, and makes friends with all the ER27 guys in here. Once you involve a third party, makes it hard to guide you

[toomanynooks]

Wow thanks very much for all of that info.  I would have more coin buckets to throw at it, but right before I bought this car I bought a new STI and put winter wheels & snow tires on it.  And now the holidays are coming up and they’re also expensive... 

 

i also have service manuals for it, although they’re dated 1988... I don’t think there’s any difference though (my first subie was a 1988 XT6, though I was 17 years old when I had it and I knew even less than I do now, lol) 

 

thanks again, you’ve given me more subjects to obsessively google and take notes on keeps me occupied though so I’m not complaining 

[DaveT]

The differences should be small.  just annoying things, like a wire color... Style of connector here and there.  Some of the accessories.  I never had an XT6, but several EA82 wagons.   From 86 GL to 93 Loyale and have a complete FSM for an 86 and 90.  Those are the kind of things I ran across.

 

[Steptoe]

Another thought...my 85 turbo sedans had a few what looked like unmatched loom plugs sitting injected to nothing around firewall, brake master

They are line end check terminals I think were used at the end of assembly line to check all was fine and dandy

Not sure if my 87 Vortex ( turbo of course ) has these. Would be handy to know and read outputs of healthy car.

[DaveT]

Extra connectors may also be for options that the particular car doesn't have.  An example - my 86 came with manual side mirrors.  My 90 came.with power mirrors.  I got.a pair of mirrors and the dash switch from a local scrap yard.  When I went to install them, the wiring for them was in the doors and the dash!  All I had to do was plug them in.  Instant upgrade.

[toomanynooks]

Sorry for the lame update but I kicked the STI out of the heated garage so I can see what’s doin with the XT6 (as if I know what I’m lookin at, ha) and clean it up good because it’s filthy and salty and I actually know how to clean a car =)

 

i did also take another idling video

 

All I did was pull it into the garage and it stayed running long enough for me to take a 2 minute video and didn’t die.  Silly Christine (I named her Christine because she is the 13th Subaru I’ve owned and she is haunted and scary.  Plus it’s an awesome book/movie), why can’t you always idle like that?  There’s water coming out of the tailpipe... condensation or something worse?  Also, should the oil pressure gauge be reading over halfway?  (It’s funny to me how oil press & voltage gauges used to be common but you never see those anymore)

 

hopefully I will have a substantial update soon

[1 Lucky Texan]

if a few sprays of starter fluid calm it down - that would point to fueling.

[DaveT]

water coming out exhaust while the engine and exhaust system are cold is not unusual.   Some of the hydrogens in the hydrocarbons in the fuel end up combining with some of the oxygen, making water.  You only see it because the pipe is cold, and it condenses. 

You are going to want to closely monitor the coolant level on the engine, at least until you begin to see that it isn't disappearing after every drive.

Cold oil pressure is always high on a normal engine. 

 

 

[toomanynooks]

3 hours ago, DaveT said:

water coming out exhaust while the engine and exhaust system are cold is not unusual.   Some of the hydrogens in the hydrocarbons in the fuel end up combining with some of the oxygen, making water.  You only see it because the pipe is cold, and it condenses. 

You are going to want to closely monitor the coolant level on the engine, at least until you begin to see that it isn't disappearing after every drive.

Cold oil pressure is always high on a normal engine. 

 

 

That’s what I thought about the water, but I’m both new and paranoid.  Thanks again 

i plan to head to the store tomorrow for a compression test kit as well as some other items as well as make a few phone calls.  I really want to drive it to work just once, but the exhaust is so loud and I REALLY don’t want to get pulled over. It didn’t even occur to me that I can use my watch to get a decibel reading... doh

[GeneralDisorder]

Question - why in the world would you buy this heap of rust if you "don't know a thing about cars"?

This is a terrible vehicle to start with. Parts are impossible to find, and I wouldn't characterize these as particularly simple to work on - 80's fuel injection being a terrible introduction to fuel systems. 

That said - these suffered from a pretty terrible wiring design flaw - they stuck the ECU in the trunk and so you have a LOT of wiring running to the engine through the door sills, etc. Subaru's wiring is not particularly resistant to moisture and their idea of a crimp splice (which is typically not shown in the diagrams at all, let alone a location for it) is a copper ferrule wrapped in a piece of rubber and then taped up. They tend to turn to green puss and are ENTIRELY hidden inside the harness, not listed in the diagrams, and can be a HUGE nightmare to track down. 

GD 

[Steptoe]

He is just as sick and twisted as the rest of us GD !

I was on codeine flu tablets when I found my AX7 for sale online. I seem to recall I thought I was buying a Ford Probe

[john in KY]

The ECU is under the package tray in the trunk. From memory it will have 2 test conecters, green and black. First checked to see if unplugged.  Not supposed to be continuously plugged in. Use the green connecter to check for any codes.  That little light will flash. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by john in KY

[Steptoe]

Waiting on comp test results and curious to see where this "erratic" result stems from

[toomanynooks]

My first Subaru was an XT6.  Regardless I always wanted another one.  I’ve had recurring dreams about the freaking car for 20 years now.  
 

I’ve been busy with work and I’m gonna try to Putz with it this weekend.

[Turkeyberry]

I guess it's time for recurring nightmares 

Nice XT!! Great color,  any updates?

[Subarule]

There is a separate forum here for that year: 

1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX

 

[GeneralDisorder]

1 hour ago, Subarule said:

There is a separate forum here for that year: 

1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX

 

That forum does not apply to the XT6. The XT6, much like a Loyale, is an EA (ER actually) chassis vehicle and as such absolutely belongs in this forum and this forum only. 

READ the forum description. Which one says "XT6"?

That is all. 

GD

Edited November 17, 2019 by GeneralDisorder

[el_freddo]

1 hour ago, Subarule said:

There is a separate forum here for that year: 

1990 to Present Legacy, Impreza, Outback, Forester, Baja, WRX&WrxSTI, SVX

 

This has caught out several new members too. Don’t go asking about your 1992 loyale in that forum, they’re EJ series and beyond. 

As GD mentioned, read the forum description - or the fine print of you like... 

Cheers 

Bennie