Zip Tie Posted January 25, 2020 Author Share Posted January 25, 2020 On 1/20/2020 at 8:19 PM, GeneralDisorder said: The shadow at 5 o-clock means nothing really. The "skirt" doesn't come up that far..... whoever you talked with is talking out their a$$ and has no experience with Subaru engines. The cylinders look fine. Put rings in it and call it good. If there is piston skirt scuffing then send me the pistons for knurling. Every EJ turbo we build has forged pistons and they fit quite loose and "slap" when cold. Doesn't have any real effect and they still don't burn oil. GD I checked all the old rings and they're all at .50mm. the limit is .35mm. So, new rings it is. Should I still worry about the copper color in the wrist pin bearings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 The wrist pin bush is bronze and that is completely normal appearance. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelstomlinson Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 GeneralDisorder, is it even possible to get oversized bearings for these older subie engines? If we're having the mains line bored, we need bearings bigger on the outside, and if the crank is ground, we need'em smaller on the inside, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 31 minutes ago, nelstomlinson said: If we're having the mains line bored, we need bearings bigger on the outside, and if the crank is ground, we need'em smaller on the inside, too! Years ago with cast iron blocks, when we couldn't find oversized bearings we used bearing shims with new standard bearings. They came in a sheet of what ever thousandth over size you needed. The bearing half was placed in the block with the crankshaft. The shim was placed in the bearing cap and then the bearing half and plastigauge added and was torqued then removed and the plastigauge was measured to see what the clearance was. Sometimes the shims had to be changed several times and measured each time. The first step was to place the bearings on the crank to make sure there was a little end gap between the two halves. I really don't want to do all that with an aluminum split block. I know they still do this with old tractors. Does anyone remember the really old machines using leather for bearings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, nelstomlinson said: GeneralDisorder, is it even possible to get oversized bearings for these older subie engines? If we're having the mains line bored, we need bearings bigger on the outside, and if the crank is ground, we need'em smaller on the inside, too! No. You have to deck the block half (the smooth one), then run a line hone through it. You only get to do this once before you get into problems with oil pump fitment. But we do it all the time. I believe there are also oversized OD bearings being made now also. At least for the #5 thrust engines. The #3 thrust engines can have the thrust moved also and use a phase II crank. GD Edited January 27, 2020 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelstomlinson Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 On 1/27/2020 at 7:11 AM, GeneralDisorder said: No. You have to deck the block half (the smooth one), then run a line hone through it. You only get to do this once before you get into problems with oil pump fitment. But we do it all the time. I believe there are also oversized OD bearings being made now also. At least for the #5 thrust engines. The #3 thrust engines can have the thrust moved also and use a phase II crank. GD So the smooth half ends up with a deck height a few thousandths lower. I guess in a gas engine that's a total nonissue. Good to know what's possible, for in case I wind up taking one of these to a machine shop. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 On 1/18/2020 at 10:17 PM, GeneralDisorder said: Just as good. 1/4 the price. GD NPR makes the rings for Subaru. They are truly OEM. The only difference from a dealer is the box and the 1000% markup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 On 1/19/2020 at 4:03 PM, Zip Tie said: Any idea what these mean? I know LKQ is a auto dismantler, but does this mean there's a warranty on this engine? The sticker is on top of the block and the coin thing is on the back of the passenger side head. The "coin thing" is a heat tab. If the engine reaches a certain temperature (~280F I think), the center falls out. We used these on our engines for years. Hell, it may even be one of our old rebuilds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Tie Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 27 minutes ago, ccrinc said: The "coin thing" is a heat tab. If the engine reaches a certain temperature (~280F I think), the center falls out. We used these on our engines for years. Hell, it may even be one of our old rebuilds. Well that's good to know that it probably hadn't been overheated. I got the pistons out and cleaned and new rings installed. Man, putting those pistons in and lining up the wrist pins and rods is no fun. Sill waiting on the heads to be done getting washed, resurfaced and pressure tested. Time to start cleaning the old head gaskets off the block. Any tips or tricks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 I used to use a razor blade glass scraper for the easy stuff. Then 3m synthetic steel wool pads for the rest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 11 hours ago, nelstomlinson said: So the smooth half ends up with a deck height a few thousandths lower. I guess in a gas engine that's a total nonissue. Good to know what's possible, for in case I wind up taking one of these to a machine shop. Thanks! Not really - you can deck the other case half off the cylinder head surface to compensate that side similarly. Not that it really matters. Only talking a few thou. It's essentially a non-issue though. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 8 hours ago, Zip Tie said: Well that's good to know that it probably hadn't been overheated. I got the pistons out and cleaned and new rings installed. Man, putting those pistons in and lining up the wrist pins and rods is no fun. Sill waiting on the heads to be done getting washed, resurfaced and pressure tested. Time to start cleaning the old head gaskets off the block. Any tips or tricks? Subaru (and my shop) uses the 3M white bristle discs for gasket surface prep. GD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Tie Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 Ok, so i'm looking at head gaskets and i know i need MLS ones. Any advice on which ones? And I'm seeing a lot of different bore sizes, It's standard bore, so what am i looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Tie Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 On 1/18/2020 at 6:08 PM, GeneralDisorder said: Don't mess with the bottom end - or if you do have it professionally line honed and assembled by a proper Subaru experienced engine builder. Trust me you don't want to attempt a block split without any experience. The chances of it ending up better than not touching it at all are extremely small. GD Well, It just didn't feel right doing all this work on the heads and not knowing what was going on in the inside of the case. So, I split it last night. And it looks like a good thing I did. It's going to the machine shop this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) The light scuffing and flaking is only a mild concern really. That would likely have ran out the remainder of it's life without issue. Think about it - what problem would that cause? I have actually seen that quite a few time. Found bits of the thrust bearing surface in many oil pans. Never seen it cause a failure. Regardless - you're stuck with the decision now. Line hone it and undersize the crank. DO NOT touch the cylinders, and DO NOT just polish the crank. Regardless of what the machine shop says. Have the rods resized to the crank. Get ACL tri-metal race bearings. GD Edited February 1, 2020 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Oh - and just use the factory graphite head gaskets. The EJ22 requires too thick of a HG for MLS. GD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Tie Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, GeneralDisorder said: The light scuffing and flaking is only a mild concern really. That would likely have ran out the remainder of it's life without issue. Think about it - what problem would that cause? I have actually seen that quite a few time. Found bits of the thrust bearing surface in many oil pans. Never seen it cause a failure. Regardless - you're stuck with the decision now. Line hone it and undersize the crank. DO NOT touch the cylinders, and DO NOT just polish the crank. Regardless of what the machine shop says. Have the rods resized to the crank. Get ACL tri-metal race bearings. GD That's only a mild concern? That's crazy that something like that wouldn't bother these engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) Look at the bearing - the surface that's still intact - there's no significant damage. The oil film that the crank rides on was not critically comprised by the loss of that small amount of surface. No question that this isn't ideal. But the reality is that the EJ22 makes 135 crank HP. These bearings can support about 500 HP and last quite a long time doing it. I have not seen a single failure that could be traced back to this type of surface flaking and I've probably seen damage exactly like that and found those little pieces in the pan or stuck in the pickup screen a dozen times over the years. The first few times I found those pieces I tore down the engine and found exactly that type of damage. But really considering the effects of that damage and not seeing any collateral damage that can be attributed to it.... I have since ignored that symptom. GD Edited February 1, 2020 by GeneralDisorder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Tie Posted February 12, 2020 Author Share Posted February 12, 2020 On 2/1/2020 at 9:36 AM, GeneralDisorder said: The light scuffing and flaking is only a mild concern really. That would likely have ran out the remainder of it's life without issue. Think about it - what problem would that cause? I have actually seen that quite a few time. Found bits of the thrust bearing surface in many oil pans. Never seen it cause a failure. Regardless - you're stuck with the decision now. Line hone it and undersize the crank. DO NOT touch the cylinders, and DO NOT just polish the crank. Regardless of what the machine shop says. Have the rods resized to the crank. Get ACL tri-metal race bearings. GD I talked with the engine builder the other day and he said that he cleaned and measured everything and it's all within standard spec. Do I still need to have the block line bored, and why? Also, Why would I need to have the crank undersized? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Tie Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 Finally got the engine back from the shop. He went through everything. Now to start piecing it back together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Tie Posted March 1, 2020 Author Share Posted March 1, 2020 Got the main bearings and the crank in yesterday and was able to put the case back together this morning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Tie Posted March 3, 2020 Author Share Posted March 3, 2020 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Tie Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 Ok. I've got it all back together. When I get the time to put it in what are the proper break in procedures and what oil should I use for start-up and the first couple hundred miles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Tie Posted March 20, 2020 Author Share Posted March 20, 2020 Got some free time so here we go! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Tie Posted March 20, 2020 Author Share Posted March 20, 2020 Ej18 out. Ej22 going in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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