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rickyhils

EA82 chafing noise from cam

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Posted (edited)

EA82 left side cam has a chafing sound. 400 or so times per minute at idle. Has got to be a single cam lobe/rocker making that sound. Stethoscope on right side cam has a more uniform machine sound. Left side sound is not a clunking or scraping sound, but like a chafing sound which does not sound overly loud so not really alarming.

Car runs well. Rebuilt engine has only 25 miles and maybe 6 extra hours at idle spanned over one week. Could this be a "breaking in" sound? The rockers are sitting squarely last time I checked.  And there is plenty of clean oil getting there.

Edited by rickyhils
Mentioned oil is getting there.

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You have got one of those rare , challenging EA82s haven't you Ricky?

400 a minute at 800 rpm sort of sounds like camshaft maths

You know best is to investigate maybe with the outer front timing belt cover off for starters.

Chafing is not a run in noise I am familiar with.

But it may be the noise you can get from New timing belts, maybe sounding as if, only as if, a bit tight

A sort of vvvvvvv sound. One may be tighter than the other?

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I've run with no TB front covers for years now.

Maybe try adding some more slack a bit more on that side?

Or, I might just put on another new belt that I already have.

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See if you can get a feel for the tension. Bit tricky comparing due to different lengths and I think different lengths of no support, wheels or tensioners

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I am not grasping how belt tension can affect a single cam/rocker.

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That chafing sound is coming from inside the cam carrier and not from the belt and cam gear.

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Ah, ok just a suggestion on thoughts.

If it is coming from inside on the dizzy side , another thought is often find dizzy rotor rubbing into module do not remove covers inside. 

Other than that , rocker cover off ..

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The disty rotor I can double check it's path clearance by comparing to removed engine.

Could be that at least one HLA is somehow stuck at a way high position. If it is, then maybe that could cause that one cam lobe to sound "different".  When rocker cover off I will try to push on the HLAs. Can compare it with a working HLA from old engine. I do know that all four HLAs have plenty of oil.

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The disty rotor is not chewing into the cap. Can only look at rockers and HLAs for the answer.

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Sometimes even a new oil pump or fresh reseal and you still don’t quite get full pressure up to that last HLA in the flow line. Rev it up for 20 seconds or so nice n high without being crazy. 

 

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The oil pump was spun with a drill and a socket, and plenty of oil quickly went to the disty slot on the cam. That was when engine was still on the stand. 

Engine did sit for a good long while after rebuild. However, there has never been a "tick of death sound" at all. I know that sound well from the other engine.

You are saying rev for 20 seconds. At what r.p.m.? Have already test driven at 3k rpm.

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I used 10W-40 oil. Maybe 10W-30 will cause the left cam to sound normal.

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10w 40 is what you want, unless the climate is very cold.

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Can you make a video or just an audio of the noise Ricky?

I might be able but don't know if I could make it stick to a post :) , so may be a bit rough asking someone to do something I can't

Chafing sound could be interpreted differently by others

Chafing sound I am thinking of is Corduroy clad thighs touching as wearer walks, voot, voot, voot

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I think I have the disease called - "I spent so many hours/days on my car, so why does it not sound perfect?"

Do I dare put a bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil in the crank case, let it idle for twenty minutes, then change back to all 10W-40?

Or should I just drive it? I just don't want to have any possible cam shaft premature and accelerated wear.

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Posted (edited)

Dave T -  I hear you re: the 10W-40.  I am in Los Angeles County. Not ever very cold.

Edited by rickyhils
Expand description.

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Posted (edited)

I cannot hear anything unusual in either of those two sound clips.

If this was a Swiss watch forum, you could be concerned :)

But if you have a spare engine not in use, remove HVLA and send them to Mizpah Engineering to do a rebuild on them for about six bucks each to keep on hand.

Sweet job he does on them 

Edited by Step-a-toe
Lousy spelling :(

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Thanks. I trust your judgment and I had a feeling I was a bit overly concerned there. So, I'll just drive it as is. 

And I do have the other 8 HVLA in that engine I just removed. I'll contact Mizpah. Thanks.

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Posted (edited)

And it might just be that HVLAs in tip-top shape would cause that left side cam to run quieter. And if I go in there I'll check as many oil paths as I can.

 

Edited by rickyhils
Add "oil paths".

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Posted (edited)

Engine now runs well with no remarkable "extra" noise volume from left side that was there before. After reinstalling cam with capable HLAs it took a few miles of driving at varying rpm [up to 4500] to have the HLAs pump up and quite things down nicely. Engine purrs like a kitten at idle.

Edited by rickyhils

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On 5/28/2020 at 11:32 AM, rickyhils said:

Thanks. I trust your judgment and I had a feeling I was a bit overly concerned there. So, I'll just drive it as is. 

And I do have the other 8 HVLA in that engine I just removed. I'll contact Mizpah. Thanks.

Trust no one ;)

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On 6/19/2020 at 7:21 AM, rickyhils said:

Engine now runs well with no remarkable "extra" noise volume from left side that was there before. After reinstalling cam with capable HLAs it took a few miles of driving at varying rpm [up to 4500] to have the HLAs pump up and quite things down nicely. Engine purrs like a kitten at idle.

Now, just keep driving it until the next thing goes wrong ;)

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Posted (edited)

That I will do.     And a side note-  The cam belt was off by one notch because I think that I had not tightened the belt tensioner and it slipped when I rotated for the other side. The idle was sort of ok but there was low power on acceleration and a wee bit of occasional backfire when I let off the throttle.  I though "Oh, Ricky, just when you thought you had it, you messed up." (I run it with no cam belt covers). But now it runs really well with good torque.  Till next next time with new topic.

Edited by rickyhils
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I'm sure it's less of an issue in North Hollywood, but there isn't a chance in hell I'd ever run without timing covers.  The factory rally cars, rallycross cars, the Isle of Mann car, AND the Nürburgring 24hr car all use timing covers.  That's a good enough reason for me.

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