Parasitic current drain ECU, EJ22 1992

[pvfahrer]

2 hours ago, Rampage said:

This one. Part# 10001. Substitute one quart of oil when changing oil and filter.

I also use 10W30 regular or a synthetic blend oil. Never full synthetic in a high mileage engine.

Good thing @idosubaru mentioned PCV valve. I change them when doing other stuff on the engine. And the molded rubber hose that connects to it gets hard and will crack.

good to know, i have been using 15W40 since the engine is in the heavier vanagon, but i can try the 10W30 next time again, ordered the PCV valve and will also replace the rubber hose since it has indeed a crack.

[Rampage]

Your 15W40 should be good, don't change, unless you go to 20W50 in the summer.

If you want to learn how to swear, change the hose that goes to the block, underneath the plastic Y that the PVC hose connects to. I hate that one, it usually comes off in pieces. If it is not oily around it, leave it.

Back in the mid to late 70's I read an article in some racing magazine that there was a company that tested every Racing Oil on the market with 5 different tests. The only one that did not break down was Valvoline 20W50 Racing Oil. They developed two more test before it started to break down. I had been using it before I read that. I'm sure there are copycats now.

[1 Lucky Texan]

um, I wonder if your engine could have a plastic air/oil separater plate? They are on the rear of the engine and can be notorious for leaking.

[idosubaru]

21 hours ago, pvfahrer said:

just read up on this a little bit, this would also explain why it leaks semetimes from the rear main seal...I will look into he pcv valve and replace it!

You mentioned earlier it's "sucking" oil which implies it's using it but not leaking.  Now you're saying it is leaking. Leaking = leaking externally and visibly under the vehicle.  

Internal oil consumption and external oil leaks are two completely different issues with different causes and fixes.  Clear that up and you'll get better guidance.

21 hours ago, pvfahrer said:

yeah its a good reward to figure things out with guidance and see the effect of them! its even better if you sort them out yourself, but with this stuff expert advice is priceless and saves a lot of time!

Do you mean this Lucas stuff here?

Additives and oil brand are highly unlikely to do anything. I'm not saying don't try it.  It's so easy, why not? Go ahead and try it - but don't worry or think you did something wrong, or try it 5 times, if it doesn't help. 

From what I've seen - those with positive reviews from additives or oil, also pay very close attention to their vehicles, are prone to regimented maintenance, repairing oil leaks, and buy and maintain vehicles such that they aren't likely to leak badly anyway.  It's not like they're someone who has bought 10 oil hemorrhaging Subaru's and fixed them all with just oil and additives. That's not what's happening.  The people buying 10+ oil leakers have a much different view. 

Or they have a small sample size. Or people start addressing an issue and do multiple things at once and mis-attribute what lessened the leak.  Kind of what you're doing here - you're focusing on multiple repairs at once and seem likely to do a couple things at the same time - I see this *all the time*. 

So someone replaces the PCV, valve cover gasket, and changes oil type/additive - and sees oil loss lessen.  They then go swear by the additive.  Or they change oil brand and think it's better...when really it was just because of lower RPM driving because the driver didn't travel recently and the car consumers predominantly at high RPM's.  But they don't know that - they just see an oil change and less oil use - yea! All that to say - additives and Lucas get a much higher verbal acclaim than their efficacy warrants.  Again - I'm not discounting it totally - just know what you're dealing with and don't fret or think you did it wrong if it doesn't work. Because it probably won't. 

Mitigating oil loss on dozens of oil leaking Subaru's over a long period of time...that simply is not happening.  There would be a couple shops out there running with this and they'd have high demand in subaru rich areas. 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by idosubaru

[pvfahrer]

22 minutes ago, idosubaru said:

You mentioned earlier it's "sucking" oil which implies it's using it but not leaking.  Now you're saying it is leaking. Leaking = leaking externally and visibly under the vehicle.  

Internal oil consumption and external oil leaks are two completely different issues with different causes and fixes.  Clear that up and you'll get better guidance.

Additives and oil brand are highly unlikely to do anything. I'm not saying don't try it.  It's so easy, why not? Go ahead and try it - but don't worry or think you did something wrong, or try it 5 times, if it doesn't help. 

From what I've seen - those with positive reviews from additives or oil, also pay very close attention to their vehicles, are prone to regimented maintenance, repairing oil leaks, and buy and maintain vehicles such that they aren't likely to leak badly anyway.  It's not like they're someone who has bought 10 oil hemorrhaging Subaru's and fixed them all with just oil and additives. That's not what's happening.  The people buying 10+ oil leakers have a much different view. 

Or they have a small sample size. Or people start addressing an issue and do multiple things at once and mis-attribute what lessened the leak.  Kind of what you're doing here - you're focusing on multiple repairs at once and seem likely to do a couple things at the same time - I see this *all the time*. 

So someone replaces the PCV, valve cover gasket, and changes oil type/additive - and sees oil loss lessen.  They then go swear by the additive.  Or they change oil brand and think it's better...when really it was just because of lower RPM driving because the driver didn't travel recently and the car consumers predominantly at high RPM's.  But they don't know that - they just see an oil change and less oil use - yea! All that to say - additives and Lucas get a much higher verbal acclaim than their efficacy warrants.  Again - I'm not discounting it totally - just know what you're dealing with and don't fret or think you did it wrong if it doesn't work. Because it probably won't. 

Mitigating oil loss on dozens of oil leaking Subaru's over a long period of time...that simply is not happening.  There would be a couple shops out there running with this and they'd have high demand in subaru rich areas. 

 

 

well it leaks a bit of oil between transmission and engine which I believe comes from the rear main seal but i cant know for certain, the amount it leaks is very minor. I replaced the camshaft seals and the front crank seal because they leaked as well in the beginning, i also replaces the rear cam o-ring and the rear cam plug, it all helped to minimise the leaking but didnt stop it. So before i pull the gearbox to replace the rear crank seal, i want to make sure that this is actually worth it and the engine doesn't need a rebuild because it is sipping away oil through the rings. I've ordered the PCV seal since it appears a common problem and an easy fix. Maybe the increases crankcase pressure leaks to the oil loss on the rear seal as well... maybe not. I am also not a huge believer in additives, but using seafoam on this engine really improved the way running behaviour a lot.

[idosubaru]

15 minutes ago, pvfahrer said:

well it leaks a bit of oil between transmission and engine which I believe comes from the rear main seal but i cant know for certain, the amount it leaks is very minor. I replaced the camshaft seals and the front crank seal because they leaked as well in the beginning, i also replaces the rear cam o-ring and the rear cam plug, it all helped to minimise the leaking but didnt stop it. So before i pull the gearbox to replace the rear crank seal, i want to make sure that this is actually worth it and the engine doesn't need a rebuild because it is sipping away oil through the rings. I've ordered the PCV seal since it appears a common problem and an easy fix. Maybe the increases crankcase pressure leaks to the oil loss on the rear seal as well... maybe not. I am also not a huge believer in additives, but using seafoam on this engine really improved the way running behaviour a lot.

Is there any chance the valve covers are leaking?  If those other seals were leaking then the valve cover gaskets most definitely are, have been, or were already replaced. They leak all the time with age.  They leak at the very back lower corner just above the crossmember and blow back from there as you're driving.  Which then migrates down towards the same area you'd see the leaks you're describing.  

If it's coming from between the engine and trans then it's likely to be the rear separator plate rather than the main seal.  Make sure it has a metal separator plate and seal it. 

If it's consuming oil - that's not a big deal, just keep it topped off and hope the PCV valve helps.  Also the hoses around the PCV are likely to be brittle and fail while you're removing it.  Might want to have those on hand.  Generic hose is hard to make those bends in tight places and tends to collapse but can be used in a pinch. 

[pvfahrer]

13 hours ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:

um, I wonder if your engine could have a plastic air/oil separater plate? They are on the rear of the engine and can be notorious for leaking.

yeah.. i hope its not that. the engine is build somewhere 90-93 and has the metal thermostat housing connector in case this is an indicator for what might be used for the oil/air separator. 

[pvfahrer]

2 hours ago, idosubaru said:

Is there any chance the valve covers are leaking?  If those other seals were leaking then the valve cover gaskets most definitely are, have been, or were already replaced. They leak all the time with age.  They leak at the very back lower corner just above the crossmember and blow back from there as you're driving.  Which then migrates down towards the same area you'd see the leaks you're describing.  

If it's coming from between the engine and trans then it's likely to be the rear separator plate rather than the main seal.  Make sure it has a metal separator plate and seal it. 

If it's consuming oil - that's not a big deal, just keep it topped off and hope the PCV valve helps.  Also the hoses around the PCV are likely to be brittle and fail while you're removing it.  Might want to have those on hand.  Generic hose is hard to make those bends in tight places and tends to collapse but can be used in a pinch. 

i have the valve cover seal already here havent had a chance to do them yet, maybe ill get to i this weekend.

[idosubaru]

1 hour ago, pvfahrer said:

yeah.. i hope its not that. the engine is build somewhere 90-93 and has the metal thermostat housing connector in case this is an indicator for what might be used for the oil/air separator. 

the separator should be metal on those early years if it's stock.  that doesn't mean it still can't leak from the sealant between the plate and block, but it at least won't crack like the goofy plastic ones. 

PCV valve and identifying and repairing known leaks is always the first step to oil leaks/loss.  Sounds like you already have the idea that the valve cover gaskets are bad - those things leak all the time, by far the most common leak point of an older Subaru.  That's probably your issue if you already suspected it and are loosing a lot of oil. 

[pvfahrer]

27 minutes ago, idosubaru said:

the separator should be metal on those early years if it's stock.  that doesn't mean it still can't leak from the sealant between the plate and block, but it at least won't crack like the goofy plastic ones. 

PCV valve and identifying and repairing known leaks is always the first step to oil leaks/loss.  Sounds like you already have the idea that the valve cover gaskets are bad - those things leak all the time, by far the most common leak point of an older Subaru.  That's probably your issue if you already suspected it and are loosing a lot of oil. 

i cleaned the engine a couple times now to hunt down leaks, the crank seals, o-rings and plug were the worst so far. The valve cover gasket seem to leek from one of the screws so i ordered them new... will check on these and the pcv, hopefully this is addressing the leakage.  

[idosubaru]

13 minutes ago, pvfahrer said:

i cleaned the engine a couple times now to hunt down leaks, the crank seals, o-rings and plug were the worst so far. The valve cover gasket seem to leek from one of the screws so i ordered them new... will check on these and the pcv, hopefully this is addressing the leakage.  

Good eye - there are grommets under each valve cover bolt head.  Maybe that's what you meant, but the grommet needs replaced, not the bolt.  These right here:

https://www.subaruparts.com/oem-parts/subaru-engine-valve-cover-grommet-13271aa051

Edited January 6, 2021 by idosubaru

[pvfahrer]

3 hours ago, idosubaru said:

Good eye - there are grommets under each valve cover bolt head.  Maybe that's what you meant, but the grommet needs replaced, not the bolt.  These right here:

https://www.subaruparts.com/oem-parts/subaru-engine-valve-cover-grommet-13271aa051

yeah right, grommets are what i meant, they came with the seal set. lets hope it's something easy as that..   

[idosubaru]

13 hours ago, pvfahrer said:

yeah right, grommets are what i meant, they came with the seal set. lets hope it's something easy as that..   

Awesome, I see what you meant now. Good work.

A 10mm ratcheting wrench does wonders on lower rear Subaru valve cover bolts if you’ve never done them before. They can be a slippery, hard to reach, 4 degrees per turn mess with just a wrench and not enough clearance for a socket.  It can totally...eventually...be done with a regular wrench though and 4 cyl is easier than 6. 

[heartless]

On 1/6/2021 at 8:14 AM, pvfahrer said:

well it leaks a bit of oil between transmission and engine which I believe comes from the rear main seal but i cant know for certain, the amount it leaks is very minor. I replaced the camshaft seals and the front crank seal because they leaked as well in the beginning, i also replaces the rear cam o-ring and the rear cam plug, it all helped to minimise the leaking but didnt stop it. So before i pull the gearbox to replace the rear crank seal, i want to make sure that this is actually worth it and the engine doesn't need a rebuild because it is sipping away oil through the rings. I've ordered the PCV seal since it appears a common problem and an easy fix. Maybe the increases crankcase pressure leaks to the oil loss on the rear seal as well... maybe not. I am also not a huge believer in additives, but using seafoam on this engine really improved the way running behaviour a lot.

chances are it is NOT the rear main seal that is leaking in this location. It is far more likely that it is the separator plate that is the source of the leak.

in fact, it is highly recommended here to NOT touch the rear main seal on these engines by those that have far more experience than i, and I have had my share. 

I had one leaking so badly it was losing a quart of oil every few days. resealed the separator plate and problem solved.

[pvfahrer]

On 1/7/2021 at 10:08 AM, heartless said:

chances are it is NOT the rear main seal that is leaking in this location. It is far more likely that it is the separator plate that is the source of the leak.

in fact, it is highly recommended here to NOT touch the rear main seal on these engines by those that have far more experience than i, and I have had my share. 

I had one leaking so badly it was losing a quart of oil every few days. resealed the separator plate and problem solved.

but the i have to pull the engine/transmission to get to this plate, correct?

edit... never mind i just looked it up and of course the engine has to get out..

Edited January 10, 2021 by pvfahrer

[idosubaru]

8 hours ago, pvfahrer said:

but the i have to pull the engine/transmission to get to this plate, correct?

edit... never mind i just looked it up and of course the engine has to get out..

Yep. But if your valve covers are leaking just do those first and see where you land. That might finish off the leaks. 

[pvfahrer]

8 hours ago, idosubaru said:

Yep. But if your valve covers are leaking just do those first and see where you land. That might finish off the leaks. 

yeah valve covers, pcv and a new oil sensor (leaking as well) are ordered and i will swap these before i do anything else... and then of course in case i should decide to pull the engine the question is, should i try and source a EJ25 short block and attempt a Frankenmotor. I would need to use the 22E heads because of all the OBD1 wiring and the exhaust manifold etc...I was trying to read up what the best way to go is, but my head is still spinning a bit.. all those numbers and combinations, also it seems the opinions about this have changed over the years.

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by pvfahrer

[idosubaru]

Yeah you can EJ25 it.  It’s a fine project if you can find a reasonble condition EJ25 block.  They’re usually just a short block for a reason and their history?????

they aren’t a good fit in an already existing EJ25 vehicle (compression bump is offset by poor flow), or for forced induction, and other applications that some people try. but if you have good sourcing options for a block that isn’t trash nor suspect or risky they’re a fine option for bumping older gen EJ18 or EJ22 hp a notch. 

[pvfahrer]

2 hours ago, idosubaru said:

Yeah you can EJ25 it.  It’s a fine project if you can find a reasonble condition EJ25 block.  They’re usually just a short block for a reason and their history?????

they aren’t a good fit in an already existing EJ25 vehicle (compression bump is offset by poor flow), or for forced induction, and other applications that some people try. but if you have good sourcing options for a block that isn’t trash nor suspect or risky they’re a fine option for bumping older gen EJ18 or EJ22 hp a notch. 

i have been reading and got a bit confused about this, the block that i would be looking for would be an early EJ25 from 94-99, 251??. I'd also swap in a complete EJ25 with heads etc if there is a way to keep the wiring harness and my exhaust manifold. But I am not sure if the wiring between EJ22 (OBD1) and any EJ25 would be compatible.

[pvfahrer]

On 1/5/2021 at 10:00 AM, idosubaru said:

Replace the PCV valve, use Subaru OEM.

so i replaced the PCV valve today, instead of finding it at the rear passenger side of the engine, i located it at the intake manifold... is this really where this is supposed to be? the valve appeared to be okay but i replaced it anyways. But is that really the place where is is supposed to be? i thought it was checking the crankcase pressure?!

edit: i am a fool, turns out i have been watching an instruction for wrx engine were the valve is in the back... so everything is good, only i need to replace the hoses as well now.. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by pvfahrer

[idosubaru]

Yep that’s a common Subaru PCV location. 

[pvfahrer]

On 1/12/2021 at 7:04 AM, idosubaru said:

Yeah you can EJ25 it.  It’s a fine project if you can find a reasonble condition EJ25 block.  They’re usually just a short block for a reason and their history?????

they aren’t a good fit in an already existing EJ25 vehicle (compression bump is offset by poor flow), or for forced induction, and other applications that some people try. but if you have good sourcing options for a block that isn’t trash nor suspect or risky they’re a fine option for bumping older gen EJ18 or EJ22 hp a notch. 

So, i am in touch with somebody here from the forum that has a decent recently re-sealed EJ25 engine for sale and i am trying to establish if this is a good choice for the Frankenmotor. The engine is a SOHC EJ25 apparently from a 2002 or 2003 Legacy GT with EGR. From what i can tell this should be an EJ251 or EJ252. From what i was able to get out of the information about the Frankenmotor, this would actually be a good candidate. @GeneralDisorder maybe you have a word to say on that?

 

[idosubaru]

On 1/13/2021 at 4:13 PM, pvfahrer said:

The engine is a SOHC EJ25 apparently from a 2002 or 2003 Legacy GT with EGR. From what i can tell this should be an EJ251 or EJ252. 

 

yes that short block will work.  EGR doesn't matter because you'll be installing your Ej22 heads and intake onto the EJ25 block.  being "resealed" almost doesn't do you any goods because all the gaskets and seals that are replaced will be removed for the frankenmotor build.  cam seals, valve cover gaskets, head gaskets.  you gain nothing by getting a resealed engine, except a crank seal and resealed oil pump - both very easy and pocket change to replace anyway.

i have a 1998 EJ25 block only, if you're just looking for a frankenmotor, but distance probably negates that.

Edited January 15, 2021 by idosubaru

[pvfahrer]

On 1/15/2021 at 11:46 AM, idosubaru said:

yes that short block will work.  EGR doesn't matter because you'll be installing your Ej22 heads and intake onto the EJ25 block.  being "resealed" almost doesn't do you any goods because all the gaskets and seals that are replaced will be removed for the frankenmotor build.  cam seals, valve cover gaskets, head gaskets.  you gain nothing by getting a resealed engine, except a crank seal and resealed oil pump - both very easy and pocket change to replace anyway.

i have a 1998 EJ25 block only, if you're just looking for a frankenmotor, but distance probably negates that.

cool, where are you located? you can also DM me if you prefer.

[moosens]

As mentioned in the PM I’ll let the 98/99 Forester 2.5 four cam go for $300

 

The 2002/2003 Legacy GT engine same deal. 
 

Both are in NE CT near the RI and Mass. corner. It’s a good two hours from the NY/CT line. 

Chances are really good that if you come up you’ll meet one of out other board members who is a super Subaru Tech and he also has parts cars and stock lying around. 
 

Temps going to drop some but doesn’t bother me. Both engines are inside , one on a stand the other tucked in a corner on a dolley. Back up to the bay and it’s an easy load.