nicksubaru Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 What are the proper head gasket replacements for these cars? I have mix feelings about oem since those were problematic out the factory originally. Whoever did the head gasket before i had the car used fel-pro. Which it failed... The layers seemed to have separated. And there is some pitting on the head surface. Compression in the water was my symptoms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Pin Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 I have used Fel-pro a bunch of times. When the block and heads are prepped properly, I have never had a recurring HG issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocei77 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 The preferred replacement is the Subaru HG intended for the turbo motors, they are MLS. The Fel Pro, Six Star and Cometic MLS units are all good. Head prep is essential either DIY or machine shop. O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 The OEM 770 or 642 gaskets. OE for the 251 engine was the 633 - that's the one that fails, not the 770/642 for the turbo engines. GD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksubaru Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 What an awesome idea! Resurfacing your own heads at home! @GeneralDisorder never cease to surprise me, even on posts that i just read and am not involved in. So 770/642 is a part number for the turbo model around the same year, huh? I feel like ive seen that before years ago. A new development, as im getting fully into this motor, i notice the, i believe #4 piston (back transmission side, passenger side) has a little play. I took the oil pan, baffles, pickup tube off and there is just ever so little play on the connecting rod to the crank on that rod. Even though before i pulled the motor it ran great, no knock, and i didnt let it get hot when the HG went out. The motor has an unknown amount of miles on it. The car has about 314k if memory serves me correctly. Ideas on where to go from here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksubaru Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 If i ordered from rock auto and use Part number 11044AA770 Would those be ok to use? Or would i have to get subaru oem and use that part number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Go OEM. Might cost a bit more but it’s cheaper than another HG job in the next year or two. In saying that I have no experience with those aftermarket gaskets. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksubaru Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 I think going oem with the 770 part number is the way to go. After reading the post of GD claiming that he never had a headgasket fail after doing one. But now im at a cross road. What do i do about this "play" on the connecting rod. It's super minoot. I almost wasnt sure if it was even moving, but it does. Suggestions??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I'm not sure if this engine has the crappy oil pump (7mm). My 18 year old son replaced his head gaskets on his 2003 Forester and then got rod knock (didn't know about the crappy oil pump then). I would expect that play needs to be addressed but is beyond my knowledge to tell you what to do. Hopefully GD will chime in with the best advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike104 Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Allegedly Rock Auto has the Subaru 11044AA770 PN for $46 Same PN from Subaru online is $57. If the Rock Auto part is an Actual Subaru part then I would buy that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 It's hard to make any suggestions without seeing it. If it's suspect then find another short block. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) Ideally get another short block and start fresh. If every dime counts and this car is likely to be nickle and diming the owner for the next 5 years, then who cares, gasket slap it with resurfaced heads and see what happens. How many more miles and years does a 314k car have on it? Bushings, struts, and numerous small ticket items like rack, alternator, fuel pump...there's a lot of things with reasonably high failure rates before 400k. I guess i'm from the northeast where rust rules out most high mileage subarus without much guess work. I wouldn't worry about the failure of the headgaskets, more than likely the previous job just wasn't done very well in terms of prep and cleanliness and bolt tigthening. GD says it shouldn't be done but if there's no current failure or symptoms I've always wondered what the prospects would be of replacing the rod bearings before they're symptomatic (at least they "were" asymptomatic before you tore it down), and hogging up the crank and rod. I don't have the time to play with stuff like that any more or i'd give it a go. Edited October 5, 2020 by idosubaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksubaru Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 Well, i have a short block that i would have to go pick up. Its over a 3 hour drive, but its rebuild, machined and it doesn't have a home car anymore. I just didn't want to use it in this car if i didn't have to. The mileage is pretty high for a completely fresh motor. So i guess this car will go to my girlfriend until shes done with it then ill pull it out for something else. If anyone has bought the subaru brand head gaskets from rock auto, please chime in and let me know if they are actually subaru brand head gaskets. The oil pump is off already, what do i check to tell its size? GD, i picked up a glass table top, and im going to try my luck and follow your dyi writte up on home resurfacing heads. 100% there is play on that one bearing. Even if its small. It is there. If i turn the crank by hand you can hear it a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 (edited) I’d move away from that block. some people, me in my learning days, want to see for myself or hope it would last and get 4,000 miles out of it. I learned my time is too valuable for that The pump is stamped with a number, look all over it resurfacing is super easy. hard part is getting the glass or machinist block and having a place to put it. Once that’s done it’s mindlessly easy. If rock auto allows you to enter the part number and cross references interchangeable parts for you - no that is not going to be OEM. They include OEM numbers in tons parts listing for easy verification and searching but they are not OEm parts. if you mean you enter the year make model engine and drill down to head gasket and Subaru OEM is one of the options then yes it should be Subaru. They’re usually not cheaper than online Subaru or your local dealer if they give a discount so Ive never done it. But I’ve seen them listed. Most of those listings even explicitly say “OEM Manufacturer” very clearly. Edited October 6, 2020 by idosubaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 Rock Auto does not have OEM headgaskets (by drilling down, make, yr, model) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 Sounds like get another block. Don't attempt to split it and replace the bearings. Without a main-line hone (difficult to even find a machinist that's capable) that's a waste of time on a high mileage block and the potential to screw it up is extremely high. The first half a dozen you build are likely to fail or have extremely limited life spans. Subaru's are not forgiving about rod cap alignment, block half alignment, and oil clearances. If you are not familiar with reading measuring tools down to a couple tenths and have said tools on hand - it's not going to be worth the effort. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksubaru Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 Ok, im going to pick up this other short block that was put together by a Machinist. Ill look at the oil pump when i get back and see what numbers are on it. I have tried to put a split short block together before and i was unable to move the crank, so i took it back to the machine shop and i had them do it. The blocks been sitting ever since ( about 3 years) in Saran Wrap and now im going to use it finally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksubaru Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 I found a glass coffee table on Facebook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksubaru Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 Is that oem subaru part in this screen shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksubaru Posted October 6, 2020 Author Share Posted October 6, 2020 Dam.... So i thought this short block was put together, but i was wrong... All the parts are here, everything has been machined. Just needs to be all put together... This has become a lot bigger of a project then i was hoping for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 If everything is cleaned and machined the assembly is pretty easy if that’s any consolation. Pulling the engine and cleaning parts are the parts I hate most n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksubaru Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 Well, i had a ej22 that was already put together. It has .020 pistons in it. What would i need to do to use this? Ill have to read up on backwards frankenmotors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksubaru Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 I had problems before with assembly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Have a machine shop that knows Subaru engines assemble it. Assembly is where most of the mistakes get made. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksubaru Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 I agree with GD. I know that there will be unforgiving mistakes made trying to assemble that short block myself. I recently moved and i dont have a "home" machine shop yet (Sacramento, CA). Im sure that there's at least one that is probably good. What about this ej22 short block that i was talking about. This is the motor that i had assembled by a good shop long ago. It came out of a 92 legacy. Originally this was planned for my 86 brat, but i never gathered all the things that I needed and i lost the 92 legacy car before i could get wiring. (life stuff happened). What problems will i run into if i use this short block but everything else from this car (2000 OB ej25). What headgasket would i need? Im guessing that i would need the head gasket to match the short block??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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