Pryter Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Hi all, I’m getting ready to dig into a loyale engine swap project and am interested in people’s opinions on feasibility. I have an 86 loyale with a good body engine already out and a 90 spfi with a manual trans and trashed body. my original plan was to simply swap the engine and transmission into the good body. When I realized I would need to do a wiring harness transfer anyway I decided I’d rather put in the ej22 I have in a 99 legacy. I have for another project already pulled an ej25 and complete wiring harness off a wrecked 07 forester but don’t need it anymore, so I could put it in the loyale. my question is how much of a pain is it to get the ej25 to fit, and is it too much power and will it tear up the drivetrain downstream? I’m not opposed to doing some cutting and welding, but I don’t want to have an overpowered car that will tear itself apart. thanks for your thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 An EJ2.2 is already 40% additional power. You need to use 4WD to put that power to the road without spinning the tires, even in 2nd gear. I would be worried about a 2.2 breaking things further down the driveline. I think I read someone swapped the transmission also, and made up axles to get from the newer transmission to the wheels, driveshaft, newer diff, etc... a lot more mechanical adapting and fab, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Mechanically, it's basically identical. Electronically, it gets quite a bit harder. 07 might be immobilizer and CAN-BUS, it's certainly VVT. I've never tried on one of those, but there will be more wires than a '99, and it will be far more crucial that it's all hooked up correctly (things like EVAP sensors and solenoids, etc.). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ionstorm66 Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 (edited) Yeah EJ22 is >30% and a EJ25 is >60% increase. EA82 EJ22 EJ25 90 130 165 hp 101 137 167 lb ft Think about the XT6. The ER27 made 150hp and 156 ft lbs. The transmission in the XT6 is a proto-EJ trans. EJ internals will fit in a XT6 MT5, but the actual parts aren't the same. XT6 got 5 lug too. You might be fine with a EJ22 with a EA trans, but a EJ25 puts you well over a ER27. Subaru didn't make all those changes for no reason. With the EJ trans you'd need a custom drive shaft. You can make Frankenstein axles to get a EJ trans in a EA I believe, but I would just do the entire 5 lug swap in the front. You can get some XT6 hubs from suberdave for 5 lug rear, but they are pricey. Edited October 13, 2020 by Ionstorm66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pryter Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 Thanks that’s all helpful. I’m interested in the loyale mostly because of the 4wd transmission with the low range. Seems like the ej22 is pushing it but doable and the ej25 would blow things apart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ionstorm66 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 35 minutes ago, Pryter said: Thanks that’s all helpful. I’m interested in the loyale mostly because of the 4wd transmission with the low range. Seems like the ej22 is pushing it but doable and the ej25 would blow things apart The car already has low range? Either is a DL/GL or someone has already swapped it into the Loyale. They are about as good as they get for off roading manual transmissions for a Subaru. Actual 4WD and 1.59 low range. The only issue is lack of front LSD. If you want to go full nutso, you could buy a EJ dual range. They are only AWD, unless you can find a EA82/ER27 FT AWD. They have mechanically locking centers that will fit on a EJ trans, but you're stuck with the diff ratio. They have a custom long pinion. Also you can swap in lower ratio gears for the transfer case on the EJ, but it isn't easy. Plus with the 1.59 gears most LSDs wont fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 The EJ22 will be just fine. You’ll break things if you’re being stupid in it. The EJ253 will be fine too - if you take it easy. Spinning wheels generally isn’t an issue, it’s when you go to doing them and they have more traction that you first thought. Of course constant purposeful wheel spinning (as opposed to breaking traction once rolling or when in the wet) will end up killing the gearbox. You WILL want AWD with the EJ253! Front LSD can be fitted with the 1.59:1. Some shaving of the LSD housing may be needed. I have an OBX in the front diff of my L - I run factory MPFI/turbo L series driveshafts to mate to the EJ style 25 spline diff stubs. Works a treat. As mentioned, the wiring cut down for the EJ253 will be the issue if it has the immobiliser or CANBUS. I’m sure the immobiliser can be worked around. A mate just put a 2001 EJ251 into his EA81 hatch, drops in as its SOHC and it goes mint from what he tells me. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 12 hours ago, Pryter said: Thanks that’s all helpful. I’m interested in the loyale mostly because of the 4wd transmission with the low range. Seems like the ej22 is pushing it but doable and the ej25 would blow things apart bolting the 99 heads to the 07 gives you newer block, new head gaskets, and simpler wiring. If it was a 98 or earlier, or you can find one, I'd go with an EJ22. A 2007 EJ25 has the 99 beat by 8 years which has merit compared to the issue prone 99 EJ22, and a 3 year only (99-01) engine. I feel like it's mostly a toss up but if that 07 forester is CANBUS or imobilizer ,it'll be a disaster trying to run it. So yeah the 99 will be way easier and plenty of power. Or if you wanted to cobble something together try to install the 99 wiring onto the 07 engine and just ignore the VVT stuff and find a work around for idle control and drive by wire (if equipped). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 4 hours ago, el_freddo said: Front LSD can be fitted with the 1.59:1. Some shaving of the LSD housing may be needed. Some LSDs, yes. I tried a Carbonetic clutch-type, definitely will not clear 1.59, probably not even 1.19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiGL Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 On 10/14/2020 at 9:50 AM, DaveT said: An EJ2.2 is already 40% additional power. You need to use 4WD to put that power to the road without spinning the tires, even in 2nd gear. I would be worried about a 2.2 breaking things further down the driveline. I think I read someone swapped the transmission also, and made up axles to get from the newer transmission to the wheels, driveshaft, newer diff, etc... a lot more mechanical adapting and fab, I think. Yes, but the internals of a phase 1 EJ22 manual gearbox are identical to the GL box. To the point that it is possible to recase a GL gearbox using an EJ front housing to avoid the need to use an adapter plate when EJ swapping... this is what El Freddo has in his. Subaru strengthened the gearboxes a bit with the move to the SG series Forester. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pryter Posted October 16, 2020 Author Share Posted October 16, 2020 17 hours ago, KiwiGL said: Yes, but the internals of a phase 1 EJ22 manual gearbox are identical to the GL box. To the point that it is possible to recase a GL gearbox using an EJ front housing to avoid the need to use an adapter plate when EJ swapping... this is what El Freddo has in his. Subaru strengthened the gearboxes a bit with the move to the SG series Forester. Could you use the GL gears and EJ outputs to get EJ axles and 5 lug wheels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pryter Posted October 16, 2020 Author Share Posted October 16, 2020 On 10/14/2020 at 9:16 AM, idosubaru said: bolting the 99 heads to the 07 gives you newer block, new head gaskets, and simpler wiring. If it was a 98 or earlier, or you can find one, I'd go with an EJ22. A 2007 EJ25 has the 99 beat by 8 years which has merit compared to the issue prone 99 EJ22, and a 3 year only (99-01) engine. I feel like it's mostly a toss up but if that 07 forester is CANBUS or imobilizer ,it'll be a disaster trying to run it. So yeah the 99 will be way easier and plenty of power. Or if you wanted to cobble something together try to install the 99 wiring onto the 07 engine and just ignore the VVT stuff and find a work around for idle control and drive by wire (if equipped). From what I can tell the 07 has immobilizer but not CANBUS. what are the issues with the 99 EJ22? What did they change between 98 and 99? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Pryter said: From what I can tell the 07 has immobilizer but not CANBUS. what are the issues with the 99 EJ22? What did they change between 98 and 99? 2007 I thought was CANBUS? 99EJ22 is basically identical to a 99-04 SOHC EJ25 but with 2.2 liters. Has the same valve part numbers, intake manifold, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 On 10/15/2020 at 6:32 PM, KiwiGL said: To the point that it is possible to recase a GL gearbox using an EJ front housing to avoid the need to use an adapter plate when EJ swapping... this is what El Freddo has in his. Certainly did - L series dual range in Gen1 dual range EJ cases. Worked a treat. That box was swapped out for an AWD L box with phase 2 EJ gearbox front cases and gearing. 9 hours ago, Pryter said: Could you use the GL gears and EJ outputs to get EJ axles and 5 lug wheels? Yes. Front diff stubs are held in by a circlip on the inside of the spider gears. L and EJ interchange. Driveshaft lengths are still different so a custom length shaft is still required. Over here we got the NA MPFI EA82 L series that has the EJ spec 25 spline front diff stubs and the good 1.59:1 L series low range. It’s all Lego! Back on the 5 stud swap with bigger EJ brakes, you still need to work out something for the rear hub as the L and EJ rear hub setup is completely different. Cheers Bennie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfoyl Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 I believe an early Impreza auto box will yield the correct tail shaft length Bennie ? That may be Brumby/BRAT specific though, not L-series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 1 hour ago, dfoyl said: I believe an early Impreza auto box will yield the correct tail shaft length Bennie ? That may be Brumby/BRAT specific though, not L-series. Yeah I have no idea on that Dfoyl. I’ve never looked into it. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferp420 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 A 99 2.2 has a power bump and higher compresion than the old 2.2 they bumped it to150hp mine has 300k still running the stock headgaskets its never broke down or had any issues just regular maintenance even with a 3" lift running 28" tires its been a vary reliable engine the new 2.5l still have headgasket problems to my knowledge they never fixed that problem the 2.5 has never been a reliable engine ever especially when compaired to the 2.2 its a turd I know the older rigs ran better with the 2.2 motor on the 2.5 engine management system my 2.2 swaped forester ran great till the cam shaft snaped it did use the 2.5 intake manifold to make wireing easyer The 2.2l has more low end torque than the 2.5 making it a better choice for off road but also means the 2.5 wont break parts any more than the 2.2 maybe even less the 2.5 is a better choice for street use The loyale has the parking break on the front wheels so you can use the parking break as a chessey limited slip it worktheeally good its gotten me out of alot of bad places even in 2wd and its already instaled on the car The only real issue i see with the ej swap is the ea82 clutch its smaller than the ej clutch and the ej already has clutch slip with a brand new clutch ive herd the ea82t clutch holds up ok but good luck finding the right one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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