subaru1988 Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) Here's to everybody having a better New Year than old year! Anyway, in a nutshell, did a timing belt job. I had to take the dizzy out. I couldn't mark the rotor location; the hold down bolts were marked with grime :). Timing belt marks are right on the tooth, the Driver side is a hair from being perfectly centered with the mark, Passenger side is right on. It actually runs (drives) pretty nice. I installed the dizzy, and drove it a week or so ago. I tried to adjust the timing. It DID idle that time, and all I could get is 10-12 BTDC, and I know it should be at 20 BTDC. I simply ran out of adjustment slot space. All indications were it was a tooth off. So I decided to "fix" it so I could get the 8 degrees I needed. Fast forward to today... I wanted to make SURE the gear mark was lined up to #1, as in the FSM, so I took it out of the car since I was going to move the rotor anyway, made sure my mark was right, and reinstalled it. The mark I made can be seen as a black mark on the lip of the dizzy housing in front of the rotor. I rolled it over like Miles says in the video to 12:00 on the D/S for the CAM timing mark, and then I kept going to ZERO on the IGNITION mark (sprocket timing marks at 45 degrees outward), and I put the dizzy in. The picture below is where the rotor was in relation to 0 on the flywheel, which is the suggested starting setting in the FSM. It's stalling at a stop on me. It doesn't run rough at all. After it's warmed up, and I go to check the timing, it just wants to stall while stopped. I tried a few different spots in between on the slot, same result. I tried to get the hill holder spring in the pic as a reference like the Fox video uses, but I couldn't. I've boiled this whole procedure down to 1) Mark on flywheel 2) Position of Rotor 3) Position of #1 on Cap. What do you guys think? Thanks! Edited January 3, 2021 by subaru1988 Clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasse Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Are you sure you aren’t one tooth off on the distributor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru1988 Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Sasse said: Are you sure you aren’t one tooth off on the distributor? No . *Edit- After your post, I decided to try to see if I could get it lined up a little better at it's current 0 position on the flywheel, and it seems I did. The rotor is now much closer to pointing right at the center of #1 on the cap. This is all easy enough to change, but it's becoming an exercise in frustration for me when it seems like it really doesn't have to be. The car runs (drives) pretty nice, so the timing belt part of this whole project is over, or that's where I'd look first. I've already verified the marks and they're where they were when I finished that. The main thing I changed from the previous drive to today is the distributor position to gain more of the adjustment slot. I also tightened up a few plug wire to cap terminals. From what I understand, the reference point to find out if the "one tooth off" is the case is the #1 post on the distributor cap. The problem is, how much off is too much? I'm familiar with this procedure on old American cars, but this should be the same on the Subaru. Here's a vid I've been using to make sure I'm not going down some useless rabbit hole.. Edited January 3, 2021 by subaru1988 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ionstorm66 Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Are you sure the timing belt isn't one tooth off? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 If this is an EA82 engine, ypu have to connect the green test connectors to measure and set the timing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru1988 Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ionstorm66 said: Are you sure the timing belt isn't one tooth off? Yes. Would it run decently at all if they were off? It idled last time I drove it, and they didn't change from then to now or from the pics below.. I check them every time because I wanted to be sure I was on TDC compression stroke like in Miles's vid. 39 minutes ago, DaveT said: If this is an EA82 engine, ypu have to connect the green test connectors to measure and set the timing. It is an EA82 1988 with SPFI. Same result either way. I drove it to warm it up, it wants to stall. Tried connecting the connectors to see if that would change it, it wants to stall. Last time before I changed it, it idled but I ran out of adjustment slot, and as you suggested in your replies, I was probably a tooth off then. It needs to be at 20, not 12, which is why I changed it. I have an emissions test coming up. Edited January 3, 2021 by subaru1988 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 the timing belt pics look good. When the green connectors are connected, it tell the ECU not to mess with the advance, so timing must be set / checked with them connected. If you ran out of slot to get to 20degrees, the disty gear is off a tooth. The alignment setting info applies to the rotor position once the distributor is in place. If you watch closely, the rotor turns some while inserting because of the helical gears used to drive it. Since it does run, it's probably only off 1 tooth. Just pull the distributor until the gear disengages, advance or retard it a tooth, [depending on which way you ruin out of slot] slide it back down. re check the timing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasse Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 11 minutes ago, DaveT said: the timing belt pics look good. When the green connectors are connected, it tell the ECU not to mess with the advance, so timing must be set / checked with them connected. If you ran out of slot to get to 20degrees, the disty gear is off a tooth. The alignment setting info applies to the rotor position once the distributor is in place. If you watch closely, the rotor turns some while inserting because of the helical gears used to drive it. Since it does run, it's probably only off 1 tooth. Just pull the distributor until the gear disengages, advance or retard it a tooth, [depending on which way you ruin out of slot] slide it back down. re check the timing. Agreed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru1988 Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) 52 minutes ago, DaveT said: the timing belt pics look good. When the green connectors are connected, it tell the ECU not to mess with the advance, so timing must be set / checked with them connected. If you ran out of slot to get to 20degrees, the disty gear is off a tooth. The alignment setting info applies to the rotor position once the distributor is in place. If you watch closely, the rotor turns some while inserting because of the helical gears used to drive it. Since it does run, it's probably only off 1 tooth. Just pull the distributor until the gear disengages, advance or retard it a tooth, [depending on which way you ruin out of slot] slide it back down. re check the timing. I hear you on the green connectors. What I meant in my earlier post was that I drove it, it stalled. I connected them to see if it would stay running so I'd have some idea where my timing was currently, it stalled. I couldn't take a reading. Same result either way. They're disconnected now until I can get it to idle to put the timing light on it. I did as you suggested in the other thread, and I have more of a feel for the gears. I'm just not good enough at it to determine one tooth or two teeth. That's why I'm trying to have some sort of reference point to know where I'm going. I'm trying to use the cap post #1, the gear dimple and bottom housing mark, and the hill holder spring. I'm certainly in that general area. After moving it yesterday, I'm more on the rotor pointing at the hill holder spring, that's for sure. Thanks.. Edited January 3, 2021 by subaru1988 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ionstorm66 Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Make sure the timing belt is using the right mark on the flywheel. It's a different mark than the one for timing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru1988 Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Ionstorm66 said: Make sure the timing belt is using the right mark on the flywheel. It's a different mark than the one for timing. The pics above are from the 3 hashes for cam timing, right on the middle mark. The pic in this post is the flywheel position from those pics. That's the way it was when I installed it, and nothing has changed with any of that now. I check it every time I mess with the dizzy. If the cam timing was way off, I would think it would run rough all the time, if it ran at all. As I said, when it's actually driving, it runs alright. It's idling that's the issue. Just trying to find a better way than just stabbing in the dark at the proper alignment for ignition mark, rotor, and cap. Edited January 3, 2021 by subaru1988 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 You need to align the timing marksfor spark to properly align the dizzy for install. Those cam timing marks will have the piston halfway up/down the cylinder. No good for aligning dizzy at no1 and fitting. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru1988 Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 59 minutes ago, el_freddo said: You need to align the timing marksfor spark to properly align the dizzy for install. Those cam timing marks will have the piston halfway up/down the cylinder. No good for aligning dizzy at no1 and fitting. Cheers Bennie " I rolled it over like Miles says in the video to 12:00 on the D/S for the CAM timing mark, and then I kept going to ZERO on the IGNITION mark (sprocket timing marks at 45 degrees outward), and I put the dizzy in." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru1988 Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) I had a few minutes to beat my head against the wall again today, so I took the opportunity :p I reinstalled the dizzy again, lined up the rotor, the dimple on the gear, and the cap post on #1. All of these marks are dead in line with each other. At ZERO, the dizzy housing started off at the far end of the slot toward the hood, and I set it about where I tried to make a mark the first time. The one slot end essentially being at 0 makes sense to me, but who knows. What reason would there be for the timing setting to be ATDC. Anyway, the engine is at TDC compression stroke, and of course 0 on the IGNITION marks for physically installing the dizzy. The sprocket CAM marks are 45 from each other outward. It started great, high idle worked fine, it idled better at cold start than last time. It DROVE great and drives nice. The stalling at IDLE issue remains. When it warms up, it wants to stall on me at idle. I have a new cap, new rotor, and the plug wires measured about 4.5 Ohms for the short wires, and 7.5 for the long ones. I have to say there were times before the belts broke that I did have to stab the gas to keep an idle. It just wasn't quite as bad. It was like 30 seconds worth, and then it acted up. In addition, one time it was zero degrees out last year, and driving that car was like a bucking bronco- it was surging like crazy. When the weather warmed up, problem gone, at least until it sat at idle for more than 30 seconds. Now it won't idle that long. No CEL light is on, BTW. It starts right up cold or warm. Now that I've eliminated the timing belts and the distributor position out of the equation, I'll guess I have to find out where to head next with getting this car squared away.. Edited January 4, 2021 by subaru1988 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 ok.... Check the CTS & wiring. I made a post on the forum a while back with various readings. IT can fail in ways that cause all kinds of problems, but no CEL. IAC valve & wiring is something to look at also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru1988 Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) 22 hours ago, DaveT said: ok.... Check the CTS & wiring. I made a post on the forum a while back with various readings. IT can fail in ways that cause all kinds of problems, but no CEL. IAC valve & wiring is something to look at also. I'll do that. I'm positive the dizzy is installed right now. I'm beginning to wonder if someone before me messed with the dizzy and didn't take the time to set TDC/rotor/cap correctly. At least I know where I'm at with relation to doing TDC/rotor/cap right now. *Edit- For anyone that sees this thread in a search, if you follow the instructions in the video I posted using the Subaru FSM sprocket pics as the way to find TDC compression stroke to install the dizzy, that's the CORRECT way you position the dizzy to use the factory #1 plug wire. My car runs pretty nice now, it even idles OK, and I was able to set the timing. Hot tip- pics and vids of other setups are nice references, but not all cars act the same. I'll look for the thread you referenced. Thanks for the help! Edited January 5, 2021 by subaru1988 Result Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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