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Is an XT safe/can I make it safe?


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3 hours ago, linkthehero1234 said:

What can I do to convince them or improve the safety?

Probably nothing.  Old cars won't have all the safety features of more modern cars and there's really no way to upgrade them.  They are simply what they are.

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Look up it's crash test ratings? 

Slightly different thing - How are you going to keep it running?  These are approximately 30 year old cars, not many mechanics that know their idiosyncrasies are around, parts are not easy to find, many are NLA.   Are you looking for a project, or a daily driver?

I run a couple of 30 year old Subaru wagons as 1 daily driver.   Yeah, 2.  When one has a problem, I can have time to fix it while driving the other.  I also have a LOT of spare parts from the other ones I've owned that I saved when the bodies rusted away.
 

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1 hour ago, DaveT said:

Look up it's crash test ratings? 

Slightly different thing - How are you going to keep it running?  These are approximately 30 year old cars, not many mechanics that know their idiosyncrasies are around, parts are not easy to find, many are NLA.   Are you looking for a project, or a daily driver?

I run a couple of 30 year old Subaru wagons as 1 daily driver.   Yeah, 2.  When one has a problem, I can have time to fix it while driving the other.  I also have a LOT of spare parts from the other ones I've owned that I saved when the bodies rusted away.
 

I tried to find crash ratings, couldn’t find them, and not sure about project or daily

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Plenty of sad moments to owning a vintage car that you also want to operate often. 
 

Tires are going to be harder to acquire. Parts - very hard. Shops won’t work in it. All that said guys like us still want to enjoy having the ride and feel our strong appreciation will drive us somehow to be able to show the world that YES we can own and drive a vintage Subaru! 
 

Just think about getting stuck in bad traffic , or a situation where the cars are traveling fast. And you’re the guy in the car that can’t get out of its own way let alone theirs. People aren’t always kind to older cars like you may think. At shows or on occasions yes. But as driver , not really. Just saying it had better be able to function 100%

 

Tough call at your age. It’s great to see such enthusiasm from you. I wish you luck. Soon enough you’ll be able to make your own calls. Maybe hop on an XT group and keep track of issues , prices , and availability. 
 

The XT is unique, and fun. And rare now. You knew that. Lol 

Enjoy ! 

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10 hours ago, linkthehero1234 said:

Hi, I’m 14 and want an XT, but my parents don’t want me to have a car from the 80s-2000s because it’s not safe. What can I do to convince them or improve the safety?

The non turbo EA82 vehicles are great fun, characterful and reliable vehicles that are an economic classic to own. What they are not, is a safe vehicle. They are on the lighter end of construction even by 1980s standards (compared to something bigger, like a Camry or Falcon or something American) and in a collision with a modern vehicle they will perform very poorly indeed. 

At the end of the day, if your parents are buying the vehicle, they will probably decline it. If you want a modern safe Subaru that still has something of the "classic Subaru" feel, I would recommend a manual normally aspirated 2.5 litre SG Forester. I've owned one, and it is the closest I have come to replicating my EA82 experience with a modern vehicle.

If it's your money, I'd buy the XT, and enjoy it.

Hope this helps.

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12 hours ago, linkthehero1234 said:

Hi, I’m 14 and want an XT, but my parents don’t want me to have a car from the 80s-2000s because it’s not safe. What can I do to convince them or improve the safety?

G’day @linkthehero1234

Best thing you can do is learn how to actually drive and master situational awareness. That’s the only real way to improve your safety. 

As others have said, the XT isn’t the safest car on the road, nor will it be boring to drive because you HAVE to drive it. I think many new safety features make for lazy drivers, and lazy drivers = a crash waiting to happen. 

Like KiwiGL said, if your parents are buying get yourself into the SG foz. Personally I don’t like the styling of the later series but that’s up to you. It will have front driver and passenger’s airbags, ABS and can be an awesome first car to own. Some minor exhaust mods can have it sounding like a WRX easily if you want. You can raise them for offroad or slam them to the ground, it depends on what you want to do/look like with your vehicle. 

While you drive that one, work your job and save for the right XT for you. Drive that as a classic and not a daily. 

Going back to the learning how to drive but - watch some YouTube videos on bike stacks and what they could have done to avoid it - many principles are the same on four wheels in the “cage”. I recommend dandanthefireman, some might not like him but he goes well for me.

Cheers 

Bennie

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average age of cars on the road at present is approaching 13 years I think. Average

so, to perhaps keep the parents happy, I'd aim for something no older if possible. Maybe 15 years?

many new drivers inherit their first car from a parent, if that seems unlikely, I'd think you could 'guilt' them into helping you get a decent car. Authority comes with Responsibility.

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At your age,  your parents are not only thinking about safety, they're thinking about the fact that it will cost THEM more money than it's worth to keep it on the road for you. It's one thing to keep these cars going reliably by doing the work yourself, it's a whole 'nother deal to be paying someone to do this or that to keep it working right. Honestly, old Subarus can be cheap enough that if you (or your folks) get a newer car you could still get the oldie to work on as a "project" that runs and drives. You'd learn a lot too. That said, not only do you need to buy the car, you also need to invest in a decent tool set to do the work on it. The skills and tools, however, you will own for LIFE.

As for safety, yea, newer cars are "safer". The problem is you can then have faulty Takata airbags, wonky gas pedals, bad seat belts, etc. etc. There is a trade-off too. All this stuff requires a run to the dealer or shop if not recalled and that means $$$$.

Edited by subaru1988
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Why an XT?

Meeting in the middle may be wise - get a daily driver and have an XT project car you can drive after some experience/work. Don't plan on a 30 year old car being reliable if that matters. 

22 hours ago, linkthehero1234 said:

Hi, I’m 14 and want an XT, but my parents don’t want me to have a car from the 80s-2000s because it’s not safe. What can I do to convince them or improve the safety?

It can't be improved. Retrofitting airbags and addressing design considerations is enormously complex, and I hate to use words you won't understand but "your parents are right". 

Parts availability is highly problematic as well. 

11 hours ago, KiwiGL said:

Here's a link to a video of a 90s Corolla vs a new one in an offset crash test. You can imagine how poorly a more lightly built Subaru would perform.

https://youtu.be/xidhx_f-ouU

Wow that makes me think a bit about my old vehicles.  Crazy.  

 

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crash test results for this era would not do well in todays tests on these. It may be something you have to wait until you leave the nest, to own. You are possibly asking people in here similar age to your parents, or older, and may hold their views on this safety thing. I would allow you to have it in the guise that it is a starting point to learn about a reasonably basic car for yu to pull apart and back together, drive up and down the driveway, and if a manual, that is the best place to learn the first two gears ! Then you might let your parents take it for  drive to assess it's safety , maybe take it through driver safety courses with them and get some better qualified instructor comment on it and yourself at the wheel...

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Another car to consider is a Gen3 Legacy - especially the RX model. Plenty of punch for a first car, comfortable to drive, looks good in my opinion. You also get good fuel usage if you drive it neatly. 

I say this as we have one of these in the family too. It’s my sisters and last time I saw it I checked the odometre and it’s got 470,000km on it. We got it at 330,000km. I did the HGs on it (didn’t know about the factory HG issue and had the external leaking coolant issue). At about 400,000km I redid the HGs with the multi layered steel units GD recommends. Haven’t had an issue since. This thing regularly pulls in 8.6L/100km. Namely country kms. 

Solid body, loads of room and a good dose of power under the bonnet makes this one a good first car in my book. I wish vehicles like this were accessible to me when I was first driving! 

Food for thought. Hunt around, see what you can find. Read up on the EJ251 and EJ253 engines. Both are good if maintained - and HGs are swapped with decent units when the time comes. 

Cheers 

Bennie

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6 hours ago, el_freddo said:

Another car to consider is a Gen3 Legacy - especially the RX model.

In the US an RX is another old Gen EA82T like the XT.  I don’t know the legacy equivalent but it would be very confusing for a newb here since that is an old Gen model here and new Gen for you. 

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17 hours ago, idosubaru said:

In the US an RX is another old Gen EA82T like the XT.  I don’t know the legacy equivalent but it would be very confusing for a newb here since that is an old Gen model here and new Gen for you. 

It’s both here too. The L series RX is the EA82 turbo. 

The Gen 3 RX is the larger displacement engine with the EJ251 (2.5L), as opposed to the bog stock Legacy with the EJ201 (2L). That’s how it is in Australia, I assumed it would be the same in the US, which could be where there’s an issue in my info. 

Cheers 

Bennie

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21 hours ago, el_freddo said:

The Gen 3 RX is the larger displacement engine with the EJ251 (2.5L), as opposed to the bog stock Legacy with the EJ201 (2L). That’s how it is in Australia, I assumed it would be the same in the US, which could be where there’s an issue in my info.

We never got that. RX only means old Gen EA82 here.   I’ve confused US make/model/year or engine cutoffs with yours before. 

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I have a 1986 XT and 1997 SVX.  The XT very much feels like a slightly stronger and more modern VW (old style) Beetle.  It's light weight and the metal is obviously very thin.  Between that and the maintenance needed I'd only recommend it as a spare car for tinkering and occasional drives.  And that's not even mentioning a dearth of parts... there's almost nothing available for the XT - you have to adapt other model's parts and use your inner MacGyver.  

The SVX, on the other hand is a much more substantial car.  Solid, with airbags and anti-lock brakes.  Dependable except for known transmission issues and the nits that come with any older car.  In my opinion it's much less fun to drive than the XT - more like a sporty Camry.

Long story short, I'd recommend you follow your parent's wishes and find a newer generation Subaru as a daily, eventually buying an older Sub as a hobby car.  Good luck with whatever you find !

Rich   

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I say do what you want. If you want an XT then get one. It will be a valuable learning experience. 

It will take a lot of leg work to find parts. And you will be working on it (and learning) more than you will be driving it. But for many of us - that's just part of the hobby. The endless, frustrating search for dirty, broken, used parts with a 50% chance of finding something that will work for just a few more miles.....

Personally - I got off the train. I realized that I want to USE my machines. Not spend endless amounts of time fixing them and trying to find or make parts for them. 

Make the decision - do you want to DRIVE the car or do you want to endlessly WORK on the car? The XT choice leads you down one path, and the newer car your parents want leads you down the other path. 

My choices have led me down the path of vehicles for which I can easily (not necessarily cheaply) obtain parts (and service information), and that give me pleasure to drive. I can tell you that the XT fits neither category. It's nigh impossible to find parts for, and it's underpowered and terrifying to drive.

GD

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  • 2 weeks later...

Honestly man if youre able to find a non turbo xt they are actually fairly reliable. I daily drive mine and only have had problems with the CV axles. The ea82 is a very simple engine to work on and the platform itself isn't that hard to find mechanical parts for. Now if you get an xt turbo or xt6 I can't say the same. Body and interior parts are like gold for the xt and they are difficult to come by in decent condition. As far as safety goes, just try not to crash the thing. We don't want to lose another xt.

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On 10/12/2021 at 10:24 PM, GeneralDisorder said:

I say do what you want. If you want an XT then get one. It will be a valuable learning experience. 

Randomly curious - How often do you see XT6s or XTs now? I saw a bunch of 80s Subarus in CO like 10 years ago, but saw zero last month when I was there.  Is that anecdotal or did numbers drop a lot out west in 10 years?

Obviously they’ve been practically  nonexistent in the East for a long time. 

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On 10/23/2021 at 2:17 PM, idosubaru said:

Randomly curious - How often do you see XT6s or XTs now? I saw a bunch of 80s Subarus in CO like 10 years ago, but saw zero last month when I was there.  Is that anecdotal or did numbers drop a lot out west in 10 years?

Obviously they’ve been practically  nonexistent in the East for a long time. 

Haven't seen one on the road in recent memory - probably been 5-10 years. Haven't had one in the shop in 5+ years. At one point we had an XT6 hanging around that was basically an albatross that no one wanted even with low miles. Did a lot of sitting and had electrical problems. 

GD

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 10/23/2021 at 2:17 PM, idosubaru said:

Randomly curious - How often do you see XT6s or XTs now? I saw a bunch of 80s Subarus in CO like 10 years ago, but saw zero last month when I was there.  Is that anecdotal or did numbers drop a lot out west in 10 years?

Obviously they’ve been practically  nonexistent in the East for a long time. 

ive seen a couple of svx's in california but never an xt

 

also, i found some crash test data for the xt here and here, can anyone help interpret this data?

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