Starts poorly.. won't run.

[SubiKing907]

Hey guys, I'm back. 

1990 Subaru Loyale w/ push button 4x4

205,000mi

After months problem free, the ol Loyale decided it was time to issue me a new headache. Lol

I was coming home on the highway, I went to accelerate to overtake a vehicle to make room for merging traffic when the car lost all its power. I could feel the engine skip slightly a few times, so I put the clutch to the floor, and the rpms dropped to zero. So I put it in 4th and popped the clutch, it started, but again had no torque. That's when I pulled over. 

Fast forward to this morning. Went back to the car. It starts sometimes but dies quick. It has fuel. I asked a fellow church member to pull me to my another friend's shop. We took off the rubber air intake and poured a little fuel into the single port injection while I turned the key. It kept running. We took slightly off the hose on the downstream side of the fuel filter. It squirted fuel. Now what? 

I appreciate any advice. Thank you guys, you've been absolutely amazing in the past. 

[GeneralDisorder]

Possibly the pump has failed. They commonly leak from the damper bulb that's built into them. It can be replaced by a mid-80's Ford F150 frame rail mounted pump with some modification. 

GD

[SubiKing907]

Hi GeneralDisorder,

Honestly I hoped you'd see this and respond. And you did! Much faster than I thought though! Thank you. 

If the pump was bad, would it still start for a moment before dying, the way it is? How can I test it? I don't own the appropriate gauge.

Any other ideas if I eliminate the pump? 

What do you think about timing?

Is Gloyale still around?

And MilesFox?

I really respect the three of you and admire and envy your Subaru knowledge. 

Edited March 21, 2022 by SubiKing907

[SubiKing907]

Also, I should add, this car ran a little warm. The gauge would sometimes rise just to about 3/4 of the way, never in the red, not one time. Highest it would get is slightly less then a pencil's width from the top, and the  come back to the center or lower.

It's done this for a long time. The cooling fan doesn't work I don't think but literally all the driving the car gets is highway miles, so while I would like to fix it, since it almost always has 60mph air flowing and I have so far been unable to find a new unit, I haven't made it a critical priority. 

Where is/are the coolant temp sending units on this thing? All the info I've found has been confusing... about where they are, if there's one or two, etc. Are you able to clarify this for me please? I've heard the cts can cause significant drivability problems.

It does eat coolant slowly.. but im not sure where it's going. It's not leaking. It's not blowing any white smoke or coolant s.elling eexhaust. I top it off from time to time but I'd love to figure out where it's going.

 

Finally, I'm not sure it's related, bu three weeks ago I heard loud BANG come from somewhere. Think of a big block of steel, falling flat on a bigger dense peice of metal. Like that. 

Really freaked me out. I was hunting for like an hour and half what did that. No luck, no other associated symptoms to go with it, it didn't stall, shake, lurch, nothing. No clue on that one. Super weird.

Edited March 21, 2022 by SubiKing907
Grammar error

[DaveT]

The CTS is a 2 wire sensor.  The thermistor for the temp gauge is a 1 wire.  Both are on the lower part of the thermostat housing. 

A number of things can cause the no power.  In no particular order,  weak fuel pump, bad fuel pressure regulator,  clogged catalytic converter, amng others.   Fuel PSI needs to be 21.  

[DaveT]

F or the dissappearing coolant,  it can be going into the intake  at the manifold gaskets,  or the throttle body seal.  Or a failing headgasket.   Any of these can start very slowly,  leaving no evidence. 

[subaru1988]

16 hours ago, SubiKing907 said:

Also, I should add, this car ran a little warm. The gauge would sometimes rise just to about 3/4 of the way, never in the red, not one time. Highest it would get is slightly less then a pencil's width from the top, and the  come back to the center or lower.

It's done this for a long time. The cooling fan doesn't work I don't think but literally all the driving the car gets is highway miles, so while I would like to fix it, since it almost always has 60mph air flowing and I have so far been unable to find a new unit, I haven't made it a critical priority. 

It does eat coolant slowly.. but im not sure where it's going. It's not leaking. It's not blowing any white smoke or coolant s.elling eexhaust. I top it off from time to time but I'd love to figure out where it's going.

 

Finally, I'm not sure it's related, bu three weeks ago I heard loud BANG come from somewhere. Think of a big block of steel, falling flat on a bigger dense peice of metal. Like that. 

Really freaked me out. I was hunting for like an hour and half what did that. No luck, no other associated symptoms to go with it, it didn't stall, shake, lurch, nothing. No clue on that one. Super weird.

On the coolant loss...How old is your radiator? My car would run at 3/4 up the gauge in most driving conditions for years and years and mysteriously lose a small amount of coolant with no obvious leak or smoke. The radiator was shot. The fins were falling out of it with a slight leak, and I couldn't see any of this because of the fan. I know it had a leak because I could see the residue from it after I took the rad out. I only saw it when it was time for a timing belt job and I removed it all for better access.

You can get a small universal fan at Autozone to replace it if necessary.

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by subaru1988

[GeneralDisorder]

Post a video of what it does. 

GD

[SubiKing907]

Hey guys.

So after some reading up on wiring and fuses and all your advice, followed by the appropriate disassembly and diagnostics... I found nothing as far as why it wont run. So I put it back together.  

And now it runs. Just like it did before, maybe slightly better. So now I'm SUPER confused.

Why did it lose power on the highway like that? Why did it it die when I put the clutch to the floor and not fire back up? Biggest of all, why is it working now? I didn't do anything, maybe tightened the hose clamp around the intake. 

Just drove it home without a problem. I'm happy, but confused. I don't like mysteries lol.

GeneralDisorder, I would post a video for you, but it decided it wants to be a car again I guess. 

DaveT, I had the intake manifold done not too long ago, I'll get the milage for you. I hope the hg isn't goin out. 

Subaru1988, you're right about my radiator. It's been on my list for a while. I don't know what happened to the car before I had it, but the rad is in fairly rough shape. 

Come spring I intend to replace the radiator and the fan. I'd like to find a genuine Subaru fan, but I know thats a long long shot.. maybe I can rebuild the one I have.. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by SubiKing907
Updated for previous response in the thread

[SubiKing907]

Deleted double post

Edited March 22, 2022 by SubiKing907

[Ionstorm66]

What do your plug wires look like? I had a similar problem and it ended up being a broken plug wire in the middle It wasn't making any noise like a normal bad wire but it was enough to cause the vehicle to run bad. It would work great for a few days and then run shitty and eventually I would move the bad plug wire back and it would get connection. Broken inside the boot. Clean the wires off and they were factory dated.

[SubiKing907]

Interesting. I will check those, and probably get new ones anyways. When I was working on it, I did realize the fuel filter is a genuine Subaru filter... probably the factory filter. If it is, that's a 32 year old filter. Lol. Definitely replacing today. 

[1 Lucky Texan]

maybe some other wire harness is abraded? something around the clutch inside or out? I once read of a car with intermittent electrical issues caused by the steering u-joint rubbing on a wire harness.

[SubiKing907]

Yeah that makes sense. I will look. I would imagine i would have noticed something like that but anything is possible. 

Just took the car on a good road test. Runs good, doesn't die. But now, after going home, 17mi down the highway, I noticed a good bit of smoke/steam from the hood. Smelled like coolant. This is new. I didn't investigate. I just went inside. It's dark and it's been a long day. I wonder what's wrong now. The temp gauge didn't get over 1/3 and had no other symptoms. 

 Guess I'll have to check it out tomorrow, but I'm supposed to work tomorrow. 

If you guys have any thoughts on the matter please share. 

[DaveT]

Coolant leak.  Do not drive until you find it and fix it.  Running low on coolant usually leads to new headgaskets, sooner or later.  

[SubiKing907]

On 3/21/2022 at 5:30 AM, DaveT said:

F or the dissappearing coolant,  it can be going into the intake  at the manifold gaskets,  or the throttle body seal.  Or a failing headgasket.   Any of these can start very slowly,  leaving no evidence. 

I mentioned previously I would get the milage when various components have been replaces. Here it is.

155,000 - Rear control arms, left rear wheel cylinder 

157,913 - intake manifold 

157, 950 - timing belts 

195,700 - drive shaft

203,000 - front wheel bearings and seals

 

I think I need a new radiator and rad cap. I think I should do a bubble test to see if the hg are damaged. 

 

[SubiKing907]

Probably a complete overhaul of the cooling system with the new rad and cap.

Where can I get a new rad? It's a discontinued part as well a the cap for the 90 Loyale/Manuel trans.

Edited March 24, 2022 by SubiKing907

[Rupart]

hi, you can use a radiator intended for automatic trans just put rubber caps on the cooling outlets to the trans.   They fit the car the same. the aftermarket can supply this they are still svailable. Online search!  If you can find it, one with all metal tanks is preferred imo , but there were single , and double row cores so try to find the 2 row. I think any loyale year model will fit.

 

[carfreak85]

15 hours ago, Rupart said:

hi, you can use a radiator intended for automatic trans just put rubber caps on the cooling outlets to the trans.   They fit the car the same. the aftermarket can supply this they are still svailable. Online search!  If you can find it, one with all metal tanks is preferred imo , but there were single , and double row cores so try to find the 2 row. I think any loyale year model will fit.

 

Driver's side lower radiator hose is unique to the AT radiator as well.

[subaru1988]

19 hours ago, SubiKing907 said:

Probably a complete overhaul of the cooling system with the new rad and cap.

Where can I get a new rad? It's a discontinued part as well a the cap for the 90 Loyale/Manuel trans.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/osc-935/make/subaru/model/loyale/year/1990

^ That's the one I have, and for the money, I'm impressed with it. The hoses went right on with no issues, however, it is NOT an "exact fit". You have to persuade  the core support with some body tools (or hammer and pieces of metal/wood) to get it in there, but it's not a big deal. I find it hard to believe you can't get a radiator cap at your local parts store.

 

 

[SubiKing907]

Thank you all for the info and the link! I appreciate it. Going to get a new rad and cap Monday. 

On 3/24/2022 at 11:48 AM, subaru1988 said:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/osc-935/make/subaru/model/loyale/year/1990

^ That's the one I have, and for the money, I'm impressed with it. The hoses went right on with no issues, however, it is NOT an "exact fit". You have to persuade  the core support with some body tools (or hammer and pieces of metal/wood) to get it in there, but it's not a big deal. I find it hard to believe you can't get a radiator cap at your local parts store.

 

 

You are absolutely correct,  I bet the cap and maybe even a rad could be found locally, but I really try to make every effort to get genuine Subaru parts whenever possible before going to discount auto part store. With some exceptions of course,  you know what I mean.

 

I fixed the weak start/won't run problem. Seems it was a combination of a old fuel filter and a vacuum leak. 

I also localized the localized the source coolant steam but have yet to pin point it. It seems to rise from the dead center of the engine, beneath from where the intake hose clamps on.

[Ionstorm66]

So you have a plastic aluminum radiator or a copper? If it's copper it's worth the money to have to recored. If it's aluminum/plastic then just get a new one.

 

I pulled a 2 core out of a wreckes car and had it recored. Rad was free and recore was $100.

[SubiKing907]

Very interesting! I didn't even know recore-ing was a thing. But im no master mechanic and I'm not going to try to pretend lol. 

I bet the radiator I have is the Subaru factory radiator. I did find a replacement online with aluminum cores, I'll find the link and post it. See what you think. 

[Ionstorm66]

9 hours ago, SubiKing907 said:

Very interesting! I didn't even know recore-ing was a thing. But im no master mechanic and I'm not going to try to pretend lol. 

I bet the radiator I have is the Subaru factory radiator. I did find a replacement online with aluminum cores, I'll find the link and post it. See what you think. 

Yeah they only keep the outer part of the tanks. They get a core blank the right tube width, then trim it to length. The blanks come with the tubes soldered to the sheet. So they cut the sheet to size, bend a lip into it, then solder it to the tanks.