brus brother Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Bought 2019 OB used last year and was informed of benefit of being able to check for and install auto and infotainment updates in the convenience of my home over wifi. Never worked. Despite strong wifi signal in my own garage. Kept getting message "unable to download, blah blah blah". SOA insisted I visit local dealership. Lo and behold, dealers admit aware of same but that they have latest updates on USB stick so anytime I feel like wasting driving and waiting time, I am welcome to self-abuse myself. Well after months of playing "pitch a b*tch" with CSR at SOA, the engineers actually updated the program and I was able to download and install latest software and subsequently reported that the car has "the latest software installed.' So, good on them that they saw fit to update a 3+ year old car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan909 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 OTA software updates for cars creep me TFO. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 7 hours ago, jonathan909 said: OTA software updates for cars creep me TFO. completely agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 On 10/12/2022 at 8:32 PM, jonathan909 said: OTA software updates for cars creep me TFO. As a former software engineer that was, once upon a time, asked to implement SDK's for fingerprint scanners, and "facial recognition" among other insidious invasive hardware/software (circa ~Y2K), I can 100% inform you that any internet connected device is PRIMARILY used to sell product. What product you ask? Your data is the product. Where you go, what you do (how long you spend there) and any other habits that can be gleaned from the sensors connected to your vehicle. It's an ongoing revenue stream from hundreds of thousands of vehicles willingly purchased and happily connected to the IOF (Internet of Things) and reporting everything it can back to the mothership. This data is collected, processed, and used against you to sell you more products and services that you never knew you needed..... GD 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan909 Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) Absolutely. And even if that wasn't the original intent behind it (i.e. the old "If you're getting the service for free, you are the product" maxim), eventually everyone comes around to wanting to clean up in this surveillance economy. There are a lot of reasons for my not carrying a tracking device (or engaging in "social media"), but not wanting to participate as the poorly- or un-compensated source of what is ultimately very valuable data is a big part of it. And don't get me started on IOT, which is a network security nightmare. About 15 years ago I appeared on the first (and fourth, but I withdrew my permission for its airing) season of the Canadian version of Dragons' Den, pitching to a couple of the asshats who are now on Shark Tank (O'Leary made it personal, calling me "evil" for reasons that remain a mystery) et.al. . I was pitching a home server I'd designed that included an early version of what was later coined IOT. Those idiots laughed me out of the studio, but in retrospect (as much as I wanted to get that company off the ground), I'm much happier, seeing what a fetid cesspool almost everything associated with the internet has become. But, as they say, I digress. I strongly urge anyone interested in any of these subjects subscribe to RISKS Digest, a forum that's been around for nearly 40 years and rolls up, every week or so, all the worst things happening around the world thanks to the internet, badly designed and implemented control systems and user interfaces, etc. Over the last few years, unsurprisingly, Tesla has featured regularly. And though most of the contributors are computer scientists and engineers, it's very readable even by the nontechnical. p.s. And I wouldn't be caught dead with any of that alexa-smart-home shite in my house, either. In addition to the surveillance-capitalism aspect, that stuff's really about "reducing friction" in getting you to buy stuff, mainly from amazon and apple. My girls know that they're going to get yelled at if I catch them saying "hey, siri" within earshot of me. And see previous post about the EMP HARD '64 Rambler. Edited October 14, 2022 by jonathan909 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 22 hours ago, jonathan909 said: p.s. And I wouldn't be caught dead with any of that alexa-smart-home shite in my house, either. same here.. talk about creepy... and while i do have a "smart phone" the wifi/data is turned OFF unless I am actually in need of using it which is not very often. I dont use my phone for much other than phone calls or text messaging.. I wont own a fitbit, or any other similar device, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan909 Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 44 minutes ago, heartless said: and while i do have a "smart phone" the wifi/data is turned OFF unless I am actually in need of using it which is not very often. Well... you told it to turn it off, and you think it's turned off, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's turned off. The OS may be turning it back on (and maybe back off again) in order to send whatever data apple or google wants to keep accumulating from/on you. Or they (or others) just keep accumulating that data in real time (including detailed location info), then sending it the next time communications are enabled. There's a well-documented history of this sort of behaviour. You just can't trust it to behave in a predictable or transparent fashion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 It’s a Brave New 1984. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 3 hours ago, jonathan909 said: you told it to turn it off, and you think it's turned off, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's turned off. well.. it wont connect to anything unless i turn it on.. even maps wont show my current location without turning it on, so.. better than just leaving stuff turned on 24/7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan909 Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 Sure, you're doing the best you can with what you have. But as long as the power control is "soft" i.e. there are still things in there powered when it's in the "off" state (vs. a "hard" power-off, which means a switch that actually disconnects the battery) and in some kind of low-power "sleep" state, it's quite capable of enabling the network interface periodically to transmit its location, etc. My point is that the OS - IOS or Android - is able to do things that you don't want it to do and you think it can't. And that behaviour tends to come and go. It'll be in there, quietly doing its dirty work without anyone noticing, then some security researcher will pick up on something odd, look into it, and blow the whistle, and then gapple (I just coined that - does it work?) will issue an update accompanied by a feigned apology, and it'll behave itself for a while, and then sometime later a new OS update will be broadcast, and... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 (edited) The phone tracks things you don't even realize it's tracking. Here's an example - in China so called "payday loan" apps are very popular. These apps determine your credit worthiness by all the usual metrics - your "credit score", your employment status, and all that normal stuff we think of when we think of getting a loan. But they track other things because they are a phone app - one of which I guarantee you haven't considered is the "state of charge history" of your phone's battery. You see they have found that people who regularly charge their phone's battery at nearly the same time and location are more "credit worthy" than those that have more sporadic charging amounts, times, and locations. You can extrapolate from this example how much information your devices track and you can see that there is NO END to the uses that your "provider" will find for said information. Imagine all the metrics they are looking at that you haven't considered or don't even realize exist?!?! In terms of your modern connected Subaru - what do you suppose they do with your digitally enhanced, recorded and function-fit fuel level data stream? Anyone?!? Sadly it's nigh impossible to get completely away from it. The best practice seems to be to abstain as much as possible from these "technologies". In reality they provide little in terms of actual benefit to the user other than entertainment and a good book will provide more than these devices could ever hope to offer. Reading and Doing (in that order) are two of my most important goals. I credit those two habits with virtually all of my success in business, mechanics, electronics, software development, etc, etc. Watching TikTok videos, playing with "friends" on social media, and being subjected to incessant advertising is for those that will end up giving ME their money for the privilege of having my knowledge and power fix their IOT junk and reconnect them to their drug habit or their wage slavery. GD Edited October 16, 2022 by GeneralDisorder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester2002s Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 I guess that posting on USMB (as I'm doing), and discussing the foibles of our cars, is useful info to someone. And even though I'm using an alias, I suppose that it would be easy for a snoop to find out more about me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 It’s too sad to even dwell on for folks my age. Back around 1977 or so I went to a local corporate headquarters and saw reel to reel computer servers and the first internet. Folks there were communicating with other locations of the same business. It was clean. Only business and maybe a little social content. Example:It was SuperBlow - super bowl- time and the Minnesota Vikings were playing the Pittsburg Steelers. And I was, through the adult working there able to “speak” with the folks at the company’s PA location - they of course wanted the Steelers to win. It was all just green letters in a black screen. But nobody was disrespectful and nobody tried to sell anything to anyone. There’s too much to talk about. And everything Rick mentioned I’d also thought about. It goes well beyond what Rick mentioned as well. The phones are invasive, detective, and capable of things that’ll scare the crap out of us. Hence my opening line above. Read the input on sites like phys.org and read between the lines. Great scientific input there from actual developers, research scientists, etc etc But also don’t forget to let your kind wonder - NOT wander when you see it termed “may help one day”, “may be the answer to...” , and similar. You can often easily see the real reasons such products or systems are developed and it ain’t for our well being kids. Best of luck to all going forward. ok let’s get back to our cars. Don’t need more anchors tied to my heart. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) delete Edited October 17, 2022 by idosubaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 https://phys.org/news/2022-10-smartphone-global-vegetation.html An example of what you may often find these days on physical.org Be sure to read that last paragraph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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