nelstomlinson Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 My '96 Legacy recently began starting hard, have to crank for 10+ seconds before it starts to fire. Once it's running, it runs great. Fuel mileage has been about 24-ish on the highway, down a little from what I expect, but this is winter with a lot of idling and bad road conditions. About the same time this started, the CEL came on. Code reader says it's P1100, interwebs say that's intermittent MAF error. I unplugged and wiggled and re-plugged the MAF connector, cleared the codes, and drove it a while. The code still hasn't come back, but the hard starting remains. The battery is in fair shape, and the starter spins the engine as quickly as ever, per my ear. While I drove around, I looked at some of the data on the scan tool. When I first started it, the engine coolant temp was 25F. That's probably about right. It quickly warmed to 180F, again about right. I noticed steady readings from the MAF of 0.01 at idle up to 0.11 or so accelerating up a hill at full throttle. Spark advance about 20 degrees at idle, up to around 40 when accelerating. I can't see any signs of any problems, but I really don't know what to look for on these spark ignition engines. I'm not sure what else to try, but I think I better fix this before I burn up a starter. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daskuppler Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 12 minutes ago, nelstomlinson said: My '96 Legacy recently began starting hard, have to crank for 10+ seconds before it starts to fire. Once it's running, it runs great. Fuel mileage has been about 24-ish on the highway, down a little from what I expect, but this is winter with a lot of idling and bad road conditions. About the same time this started, the CEL came on. Code reader says it's P1100, interwebs say that's intermittent MAF error. I unplugged and wiggled and re-plugged the MAF connector, cleared the codes, and drove it a while. The code still hasn't come back, but the hard starting remains. The battery is in fair shape, and the starter spins the engine as quickly as ever, per my ear. While I drove around, I looked at some of the data on the scan tool. When I first started it, the engine coolant temp was 25F. That's probably about right. It quickly warmed to 180F, again about right. I noticed steady readings from the MAF of 0.01 at idle up to 0.11 or so accelerating up a hill at full throttle. Spark advance about 20 degrees at idle, up to around 40 when accelerating. I can't see any signs of any problems, but I really don't know what to look for on these spark ignition engines. I'm not sure what else to try, but I think I better fix this before I burn up a starter. Any ideas? Have you pulled a plug to check and see how the system is running/burning? https://www.motorweek.org/features/goss_garage/spark-plug-diagnosis/ How old are your plugs? How are the wires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester2002s Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Did this problem occur just after you filled up with fuel? Could be bad gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 I had an issue with my EJ22 converted L series - I swapped out the following all at once so can’t tell you what solved it. It was super painful to start and when it started it would barely idle and would fluctuate too. When driving it was definitely in a limp mode, not all the ponies were in the stables with these codes! I had codes for the temp sensor, throttle position sensor and O2 sensor from memory (this was 2010!). Actually, I made a video of it at the time I hope that helps out, I know this is the Gen1 EJ22E, but it’s not too much different to the Gen2 EJ22E. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelstomlinson Posted January 11 Author Share Posted January 11 I'm not sure when we last filled up, we don't really track that. It's possible it's bad gas, I suppose I'll have to check the maintenance log in the car about the plugs and wires - from memory they're probably a couple years old, under 10k miles, but I might be thinking about the other '96. It's hard to remember what I did to which when, which is why I keep a little log book in the glove box of each rig. Thanks for the link, that's helpful. This kind of thing is why I hate spark ignition. My diesels don't have these flaky problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 next time you feel certain it will fail, squirt some starting fluid or brake cleaner in the intake. If it starts immediately, probably a fueling problem (losing pressure in the rails???) if it doesn't help, maybe a high voltage issue (arcing?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelstomlinson Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 It's been 100% about requiring much cranking. I'll have time to try it this weekend. I'll crank in the dark and look for arcing and sparking, and I definitely have a can of starting fluid on hand. What should the fuel trim readings be? Would they be off if the injection was going wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 in a perfect world, fuel trims would be zero. I've read that single digit +/- corrections are OK. Max I think is +/-35 (not sure if this applies back to 96) and would indicate a big problem. massive vacuum leak or maybe leaking injector or bad diaphragm in the fuel pressure regulator or ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelstomlinson Posted January 13 Author Share Posted January 13 Oh. I'll look for a vacuum leak, too. It could be hard starting because it's getting a lean mixture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelstomlinson Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 I changed the plugs, and it's starting a lot easier: crank-crank-roar! instead of cranking for 10+ seconds. The plugs looked OK, and the gap was still barely in spec. I changed'em anyway, and it started quick and easy for the first time in a week or so. Cylinder 2 plug was a little more discolored than the other three, but none of them look like there's serious trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 NGK copper core is all you need! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 yup, basic copper core NGK plugs are best for the NA 2.2s and 2.5s - If you put anything else in, you are wasting your money. These cars do not need iridium or platinum, or whatever else the market is pushing. Wires should be OE or NGK only - aftermarket, parts store brands do not hold up and are known to cause running issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelstomlinson Posted January 30 Author Share Posted January 30 The car started right up in the shop, with coolant temp at +50F. It doesn't start at all now with coolant temp 30F cooler: it cranks, coughs a little, but never catches. This is really getting irritating. When I get the '02 running I'll probably just park this one for a while. I really hate fussing with spark engines that don't run right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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