WJM Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 i have a vague idea of what all this does, but it certainly sounds badass. im thinking you would use this to add more fuel, so you can add more boost, and reduce detonation by adjusting when the spark fires. thats certainly up my road DOH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddcomp Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 if i wanted to just add more fuel a 5th injector setup would have been easier this route i can run nice and rich on boost and then get it to lean out for good economy on cruise plus get rid of the maf sensor and all the associated problems that the stock ecu has when a few changes are added to the system and no more spark scatter from the disty bouncing around and the belts stretching out ect its nice to be able to say look see it does work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkx Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 heres my stupid question of the day: would you prevent detonation by making the spark fire after the piston reaches TDC in the compression stroke? is that called retarding the timing? the flip side would be advancing it when putzing around town to increase economy? if not, what happens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddcomp Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 no apon first ping of detonation a knocksensing setup for the edis would retard any other ignition events by x amount of degree's untill the ping is gone when its gone after a certain time it automatically re advances the timing to where its supposed to be in the end i willl have 2 stage knock control on will retard the timing the other will bring down the boost a few psi the faser a eninge turn the sooner the mixture has to be ignited before the piston reaches tdc to ensure all of it is burned and then the heated gas/expanding gas created from that burn is highest right as the piston just start going down after tdc.. if that makes any sense this is type at 3:30 am during a bathroom trip with no glasses half awake so to retartd teh timing means that instead of firing the plugs 20 deg at tdc after the retard.. it would fire like 15-10-5 epending on how far it needed to go to stop the ping ping /detonation is actually the caused by the fuel/air mix being ignited and pushing the piston and rod assembly down as its still trying to reach tdc common causes are not enough fuel.. timing to advanced . too much boost..sorta related to not enough fuel.. at time also to much boost = high intake air temps wich when compined with the hi temps in the cylinder can make teh mix ignite by itself "think diesel" just at the wrong time oh i almost forgot.. cheap or crappy gas with low octane will cause knock imyself run cheap low octane gas at 10 psi.. can't afford other also carbon buildup in the heads will cuse detonation so will sharp edges.. in the event of a ignition related knock the timing retard ill fix it booost related the bost reduction setup will cure that so if i have not confused teh hell out of you .. any more questions?? so the short version is advanced it fires way before tdc to make sure all of its ignited for best power retarded it fires closer to tdc.. it might not all get ignited in time to make alot of power but at least the motor will not eat rods and pistons.. not pretty also running to much retard makes the motor run hot ok before i totally kill this thread bak to bed anyne thinks i missed something feel free to correct me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddcomp Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 yay more updates now 500 ish miles on edis found out my fuel pressure regulator vacum signal line has been off.. for a long time i would guess... since i think i know when i accidently knocked it off.. oops had it running on full ms control..today fuel and ignition. couldn't tune tho found out my tps is prolly shot so ms and stock suby ecu think i am at wide open all the time grrr off to the yards in the morning other nifty stuff someone did alot of code update to the ms unit thing slike a larger 12x12 ignition map <if you have done your homework you know what i am talking about they also have a 12x12 fuel map almost done more w00tness found a way to do knock sensing on the msnedis system i iwll be using the knock indicator output of my apc box to trigger teh ms knock retard function so a dual boost and ignition based knock control now inputs for a exhaust gas temp probe into teh ms hardware and software right now its just datalogging only but even thats useful intake air temp timing retard adjustable to retard 1 deg after x amount of air intake temp increase anotehr knock fighting thing a few customizable outputs to control such things as.. say water sprays.. or c02 onto a intercooler or fans or nitrous and many... many more things i forget but will re read and prolly add to this list of "upgrades" and this is all on the stock ms hardware and ms2 is right around the corner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonOfScio Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 and for us EJ guys, it appears that we can use our inbuilt crank angle sensor to work with MS to do timing/spark, instead of trying to work in EDIS. I'm not sure exactly, it doesn't specifiy... and I haven't read into it too much, but it appears that it has been mentioned as an input for spark triggering. anybody wanting to drop in that EJ257 motor and have a programmable controller now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddcomp Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 i just actually looked it up but the edis system runs a .059 gap ... wow and here i was running the stock suby gap of .045 but i think i will try shadows suggestion and go .050 maybe .055 ish since i am boosted i hate to blow my spark out under boost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Nice work! Would this project add to SPFi engines too or is it only an improvement for the mpfi turbos? Keep up the good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddcomp Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 lets not forget those carby guys can easy swap ovr to injection to improve throttle response and milage with the side effect of a few more ponies now for the good news i must thank shadow for his help hell.. he did all the brain work and if not for his help on msn today i would not be able to say that the wagon now runs full megasquirt fuel injection and the edis system not one aspect of my engine is under subaru control ! now that the hard part of getting it started and idleing now to clean up all the temporary wiring i have all over the engine right now make brackets for the coil pack and edis module and apc box then its off to drive and tune maybe this will help generate more interest in shadows parts now that everything runs thanks shadow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garner Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 So, I've got my MS built and am preparing to wire it into the Brat. Words of advice to folks thinking about MSn'EDIS: When building the MS, use sockets for all the IC's a few of them are really easily fried by the heat of a soldering iron. I spent hours trouble shooting and replacing components until I realized one of my ICs was cooked. Sockets are cheap, my time is not.... Buy, build and use the relay board. It makes wiring super clean and easy and prevents the accidental damage of the MS or other components... Pay really close attention to every little component and follow the directions to the letter, it's really easy to reverse something or swap parts and it is a PITA to figure out whats wrong down the line... And for those of you who are running OSX on a mac or Linux, there is a great GUI tuning program called Megatunix which I have managed to get running on my iBook. It's an X-windows program that runs under X11 on Mac OSX...You do need to do some unix compiling but it's doable and you don't need a windows pc (yeaaa!!) I thought this was all very overwhelming when I started looking into it but having made it this far I can say, it's not too much if you have a little patience and a lot of desire. garner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torxxx Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 so does anyone have any ideas for making the edis part of it work fora carbbed engine? or would it be better to convert to SPFI or MPFI? (I found a complete MPFI engine with computer) Whats your thoughts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garner Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Torxxx, You can do spark only with a nifty device called Mega Jolt Light Junior which operates the Ford EDIS system and provides full timing control and programable advance curves etc....Check out this site... http://picasso.org/mjlj/?q= Would work fine and provide some improvement I'm sure over the stock mechanical disty with vacuum advance... Personally, I'd swap to MPFI and do the MSn'EDIS route, then you can pitch the MPFI computer in the trash and have full control over spark and fuel. If you are one of those Carb lovers though, the MJLJ would be a big improvement. Odd you should mention it actually, when I didn't know spark control was possible with the MSn'EDIS so I built an MS and a MJLJ. Now I have a perfectly good MJLJ unit just sitting on my bench.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddcomp Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 just a rebump for those that are new to the board anyone want to help me do sometime of writeup on this to condense it down into a more readable format? i really need to get my webpage done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garner Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 doooood, I NEED MAPS (or atleast your REQ_FUEL) I'm ready to start trying to start running MS & S extra but have no idea how to map fuel. I have the spark figured out well enough but I'm clueless about fuel. I'll help out with documention once I actually can say I know what I'm doing (sort of). email me garner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddcomp Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 i can give you mcurrent code version with my current fuel and ignition and then you cna figure it out from there and then update code after you write down things if that help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddcomp Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 the help i need with documentation is someone who can sit down with me and dechiper what i am saying in intelligent speak not my run on sentances <wich is how my mind works it jsut goes and goes and goes> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 the help i need with documentation is someone who can sit down with me and dechiper what i am saying in intelligent speak not my run on sentances <wich is how my mind works it jsut goes and goes and goes> My offer still stands. And, hey!, I am used to working with kindergarteners! "Will work for maps." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddcomp Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 hehehe cool deal but might be easier to get together over some beer and pizza and lots of papers instead of pm tag whatcha think plus being able to see what i did might help as well after i get it back on the road i will get the newest code loaded and then get the maps reset and make em available i wonder if i should start a dyno collection fun like sa 1$ from who ever want to controbute to allow me to pay for a few hours at a dyno shop and then we all have almsot perfect tuned maps to start with ... just a idea so anyone want to contribute? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 I should be passing through your area in the next week or so. Gotta score some parts once I get paid. (Been working split double shifts for min wage... think I deserve a toy or two!) Pizza and whatnot sounds good to me. So, are you close to back on the road? What's left? And don't say peddle box... I pulled one of those in 15 minutes the other day. And what about using the 1/4-mile dyno? Any strips/vacant runways your way? BTW, my next toy after this trip will be MS... I swear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddcomp Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 pedal box is in.. its the dam pin that runs and hangs all teh peddle's motor mount nuts trany mount bolts a few belhousing bolts drop spider intake on re wire ms sice i had to cut the harness to get the clutch cable in the firewall grrr just minnor junk needing a few bux and money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 I've been interested in an "open" injection system for years (decade at least). Clayton hooked me on it pretty much the first time he mentioned it. Shadow, kudos to you for all that I have heard that you have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajavwnsoobnut Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Hey Clayton I volunteered too don't forget and if you want to you can put it all in a Email and just email it all to me or we could IM each other when your awake and I am on lol and don't worry if it's something really important I do use punctuation I swear! I am sorta like you clayton things come out and there is no stopping me hahaha but still if you want to come down here for a day like say during like the sunday or monday after christmas we could try to get some pizza's from a good source for a good deal and have a 6 pack or so of beer and we could nail it down and have it up in no time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyruss Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 oooh! you mean I might be able to see it run if I can swing by at the end of the month? the only reason I dont mess with this stuff is because I still need to pass emisions here in CA and im not so sure I could slide that one thru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 y'all wanna build one for me since I'm like a retard when it come to electrical outside of a car like building boards and computers and that type of stuff....man I feel dumb:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddcomp Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 actually russ you would have a better chance of passing just tie the ms into the wires under the dash in place of the stock ecu then it alllll loook nice and stock and you can tune the hell out of it just to pass emmissions thats what alot of ,ca people do on the msefi forum so yeah you should be able to see mine run.. was gonna do it out of todays paycheck but garnishment and rent and stuff yay a whole 93 bux to last 2 weeks for food and stuff so no suby this time it looks like yes i can build things and they do work but well ask jerry i am slow mostly due to all the drama that goes on here no i did not ferget you jason sunday's ain't all that good for me remeber :< and yes shadow is the one who helped me get the dam thing running in the first place but i think i mentioned that a few times on this thread hehe now shadow has to work on a 12x12 dual table fuel map that i can import into ms lol the guy who has been doing all the code building for ms has been getting on me aboout my car not running he needs me to test stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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