Cougar Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 The starting problem may be due to dirty solenoid contacts. Also could be loose fusible link contacts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy159 Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 Hey Glen---- Do you think Sub reset that timing, cleaned the solenoid, and checked the fusible link and now is burning up the highway on a test run to Alaska? If so, he should be there shortly. Let him use your PC to post the good news---or bad news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 The starter issue is a well documented problem with these cars. The contacts that are in question are the ignition switch contacts not the starter or it's solenoid. This can be proved by running a wire from the positive (+) battery terminal to the small spade terminal on the back of the starter (remove factory connector to do this test) if it cranks repeatedly then the simple fix often employed is to add a "starter relay" I have owned several of these cars with the same problem/solution. the wiring is shown below - any lighting type relay (Napa, Walmart, Rat Shack et al) can be used. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted February 6, 2005 Author Share Posted February 6, 2005 How long will my ignition switch last? Can I ultimately expect this switch to fail? Sub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 I would say it will last a long time though they can fail. Are you having trouble with that also? Did you get the problem with the green connectors having to be connected to keep the car running going figured out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted February 7, 2005 Author Share Posted February 7, 2005 No! I have the timing belts off and new ones ready to go on- I am a fair weather street mechanic, and it is raining today! And yes I am having trouble with the starter energizing-sometimes have to rotate to start several times before the starter will crank! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 The problem may not be with the switch. It could be the neutral safety switch causing this also. You may want to set up some test lights at various possible fault locations to try and trap the location of the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy159 Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 If the starter passes Skip's battery to starter jumper test then I would temporarily bypass the neutral safety switch to see if you get consistent starts. With the shifter in neutral of course. Talkin about timing belts made me realize I have no record of mine ever being checked. 123,000 mi. I'm going to check them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted February 12, 2005 Author Share Posted February 12, 2005 OK Need some real Brains here. Replaced timing belts and set both cams to 12 O'Clock along with Crank shaft gears (had to pull Crank gears off to physically locate timing marks(sube puts them on the aft side) and then I marked front side with chalk and scribed with exacto knife! Reassembled and verified correct alignment- even rotated engine through 2 complete revolutions and reverified!Reassembled and attempted to start-not good! Verified TDC of #1 Cylinder (Cylinder closest to right front fender). Rewired distibutor cap 180° from where it was when I disassembled things! Car starts with full throttle and barely stays running at 1/2 throttle. Cylinders 2 & 4 not running-pulling cap wires results in no RPM change! Notes: Car will run with wires swapped 180° on Cap. Did not try and verify which cylinders were operating in this backwards configuration. Tried to see if connecting white or green connectors made any difference- they do not! Removed timing belt covers and reverified timing marks align at 12 O'Clock and with the slots in the top of the case aft covers. Rotating the distributor does not help in making cylinders 2 and 4 fire. Question: Where should the timing marks on the flywheel at the back of the engine be when my cams are set at their timing mark align points. Comment: I changed theses belts once before at 70,000 miles ( now 155,000) and did not have this much grief! I put the timing marks on the cams at 12 O'Clock-marked the gear on the crank, and changed the belts! Zing a 5-6 hour job for the first time! This has turned into a night mare! Almost 2 months now!!! Help- my wife needs her car- and I need some sanity-and a break from having to work on her car in every spare moment that I have! If anyone wants to call me, I can be reached at 253-921-4374 Pacific time zone please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 Did you put both cams at 12 o'clock, then put both belts on? If so, that's your problem right there. If not, don't keep reading IIRC, you put the driver side belt on, crank the engine over once, then put the passenger side one on with the cam at 12 o'clock. In the end, the cams should be 180 degrees from each other. The flywheel should be at the three timing slashes when the belts go on. The flywheel should not be at 20 deg BTDC, or anything near it. That would explain why it seems like only half the engine is firing. You'll want to verify that, then also verify your timing order, which I believe is 1, 3, 2, 4. #1 should be marked on the disty cap, and it goes CCW from there. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 do youself a favor and read Miles' proceedure Timing belt replacement EA82 It should help solve this riddle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 Skip-Thanks a million for bringing to my attention the Post and link by and to Miles! And Miles, thanks so very much- the Subaru manual that I had checked out from our Library didn't say one word about the 3 hash marks on the Flywheel or rotating the crank 360 ° after you set the Drivers side up! Skip, your link to Timing Belt Stuff fixed my timing issue. The car is running-Praise the Lord! So I taped in a sticky note with the link written down on it to the page on timing and returned the book! However- when the Green connectors are connected- the engine still dies! What should the timing be set to, onced I get things to work with the green connectors connected? I will take it for a drive tomorrow and then read the codes again. Hooziewhatsit, thanks also for first telling me that I had messed up big time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Sub, thank Miles he took the time to write and document the proceedure. He deserves the credit. I am at a loss as to why it will not run with the green "test mode" connectors connected. Have the dark colored connectors been found?? My only guess is the ignition timing is so far off that when the ECU (with the test connectors connected) tries to set the timing it stalls Did you by chance have the distributor out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 No I have not had the Distriutor out. Dark colored connectors? What is this about? I will try adjusting the timing (by rotating Distributor) and reconnnecting greens after I take the car for a cruise and read the codes. Thanks for everyones help! Subpennyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy159 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Hey Sub-----Check back at post #25 for info on distributor timing. Also the "dark colored" connectors are white on your model soob, next to the green connectors. When you previously posted you had a manual, I thought you meant a factory service manual. Therefore I thought you had access to alot of the info you needed. But as you've seen, there are alot of great guys and me willing to "work" on your car with you. ---Did anybody bring beer?--- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 Current trouble codes: 23 Air Flow Sensor 34 ? 35 Canister Purge Control Solenoid. Anyone have any clue on what to do with these error codes? Does the timing need to be set to 20 ° BTC with the Green connectors connected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 34, IIRC, is the EGR solenoid or circuit. That, along with the purge control solenoid I don't think would cause your problem. (someone more knowledgable can correct me though). They are two solenoids right under the intake hose. You can test the resistance on them with a DMM. they should be around 35ish ohms. However, the Air Flow Sensor could be giving you some trouble. Yes, I believe the manual says to set timing to 20deg BTDC with the green connecters connected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy159 Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Hey Hoozie----I just noticed your only 22. By your mature presentations, I'd never would've guessed! Sub wasn't getting e-mail notifications as I wasn't last week but now hopefully that problem is fixed.:-\ Hey Sub----After resetting the ignition timing I'd run the D-mode diagnostic. For those who don't have it, here is my version: 1. After engine's all warmed up, turn it off. 2. Connect D-mode connectors (green). 3. Start engine and note trouble codes on LED of ECU. There should be none if codes were cleared. 4. Drive car for approximately 1 minute with engine RPMs around 2000. 5. Then check LED for stored trouble codes. 6. Turn off engine. Disconnect connectors. Let us know what codes you get. roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 I cannot drive the car with the Green connectors connected- the engine dies just after it starts ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 I cannot drive the car with the Green connectors connected- the engine dies just after it starts ! That may be related to the air flow sensor code you're getting. I've heard that if the MAF sensor isn't working/connected, it usually shows up by the car starting, then shutting off immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 OK- I am getting an Air Flow Sensor Code error # 23 - What do I do Now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy159 Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Hey Sub----Were you able to effect it any by shifting the distributor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subpennyman Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 I did rotate the Dist clockwise about 1/4 inch that placed it up against the stop. It still would not stay running- but I did take it for a drive! When I accelerted away from a stop the engine hesitated real bad and I had to back off on the throttle to just above idle to get the engine to run again. I rotated the dist back to its factory original position- about 1/4 inch away from complete c/w rotation! Now there is just a real slight hesitation during hard acceleration- but it is liveable- until I can get a timing light on it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy159 Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Hey Sub---Wait a minute. Did you do the dist adjustment with the green connectors connected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 How well does it run without the greens connected? What kind of mileage do you get? about your code 23, according to this thread: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14828&highlight=air+flow+sensor MAFs either are good or bad. A bad one could cause all sorts of problems it would seem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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