Geoff77 Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Hey Everyone, Im considering buying a 2005 Subaru Forester. A while back, I remember a reviewer on a car show saying something about the Subaru AWD system on auto transmissions being superior to that of the 5 speed. I wont be doing any 'real' offroading. I will be driving in snow, gravel, mud, and maybe ice and sand. Is the standard tramsission AWD system inferior to the auto AWD system? Also, how important is the limited slip rear dif. for what I will be driving in? Thanks very much for all of your help/opinnions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudrat79 Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 I've been told by an inside source at My local dealer , that the AWD auto is A joke in the 04 and Newer cars.....A person bought a New Outback with one, drove it out into a wet grassy field on his Farm, and the thing wouldn't drive back out of the field....sat there and just spun one tire going knowhere....??? I'm not sure if this is 100% accurate or not....?? In the older Models the 5 speed tends to get slightly better Fuel economy...... For daily town/Freeway driving I prefer auto , guess I'm getting older and lazy....?? For offRoad I go for a Stick.....Better Control.... Have fun. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 Well.. I wouldn't buy an auto even if my life depended on it, hmm maybe I would. I say manual, better economy and way more fun to drive. But if your just lazy the auto might be for you. What do you prefer, auto or manual? For what you want to do, both will be good (unless that farm story is right.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 When I drove my Mercedes, I always wanted a manual. Now that my subaru has a manual, there are times I wish I had an auto. However, I'd still want a manual over an automatic any day. Plus you can put the LSD in the back of the auto, if it doesn't have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Definately manual if you're doing any snow driving. I forgot to down shift my auto in the snow and slid right into a damn guard rail! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyromanic Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Well, I am narrow minded, biased and predjudiced as well on this topic. Autos suck. Thats my story and I'm stickin' to it. But the rest of the truth is, I have one in my 98 chevy 3/4 to RWD. It's ok I guess. Sure less fatigue on the long hauls. But for any 4x4, I say it's gotta be Manual. I don't know why. Biased, like I said. Just the way I was raised. Pyro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtsmiths Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 Well, I'm gonna go against the grain here. We are driving Subarus number four and five, currently. One through three were all manual 4WDs ('78, two '87s), granted these were 4WD so the comparison is not straight across, however. Our '95 Leg AWD AT, and our '00 Leg AWD AT perform MUCH better in snow and ice than any of the manuals. This winter we drove almost thirty miles in 18" of UNPLOWED snow. The only result is we loosened the heat sheilds even more than they already were. The guy at the Polebridge Mercantile looked out the window and asked if the road had been plowed already. I told him NOPE. He just looked at the Leg and said "and you made from Columbia Falls it in THAT?" The autos are smoother, less prone to slippage, easier to restart on hills and have been trouble-free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjo Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 A while ago i believe someone told me that the auto was 75:25, Front:Rear. And that the manual was roughly 50:50, Front:Rear. I like my auto.. because well... i've only gotten stuck in it twice... once traveling 50mph, sideways, into a field w/ 2ft of snow, and the 2nd time after driving over a snow bank... into deeper snow.... i think the only issues i've had w/ the car is being high centered, not w/ the transmission oh yeah, i drive an OBS, but i think the transmissions are similar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky_pete Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 I don't have all the specifics handy but it's true that Subaru puts it's more advanced AWD system into the automatics. I don't think there is much of a difference in how the AWD is setup from the 4EAT to the 5EAT. Autos are a 60/40 split, manuals are a 50:50. As far as what mudrat said, I can tell you that his source was incorrect. My '04 WRX (auto) has never gotten stuck anywhere, and it's probably been a few places it shouldn't have been. In fact, I had to use it to pull my '02 5spd WRX out of my driveway once, it was stuck in the gravel. And my modded auto car gets better mileage than my 5spd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobyclimbs Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 I'm probably the only hardcore auto offroad driver here. I'm pretty happy with my choice.....I was a hardcore manual driver for years(exception of my '75 monza 2+2,V-8, turbo 350 w/b&m stage II shift kit, ) The only reason I ever got stuck was ground clearance! I've got pics to prove the auto w/AWD is great for snow, sand, mud....pulling large logs, small boulders out of the way , a Ford explorer out of the hole in deep snow!....unlimited slip at the torque converter too. Plus a lower diff ratio of 4:44 vs 4:10(manual) Mines an '03 outback wagon by the way. I'm pretty good at manual shifting my auto too!(within the rpm /speed range) mileage is actually just abit better than a manual.(gotta love cruise on long drives) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 i do all sorts of off road driving all the time in my XT6 so this is all XT6 related in terms of the transmissions i'm comparing. snow, mud, fields, towing, pulling people out...etc. i don't go rock crawling, slow or creep through narrow trails. i'm out in fields, mud and snow. i've owned 8 XT6's (4 manuals and 4 auto's)....and i just picked up another. here's my experience over the last 10 years. gas mileage on the AWD XT6's is not better in the 5speed. at highway speeds my auto does about 3,000 rpms and at the same speed my manual trans pushes close to 4,000 rpms. so while the 4speed has more inherent loss internally, it is geared higher for much nicer highway driving and the gas mileage is about equal. i'm a moderator of http://www.xt6.net and i'll call gas mileage even based on inputs from others, eventhough i get better in my auto's. also at highway speeds the manual trans is putting 20 percent more revolutions on the motor than the auto. makes me wonder if they put more wear on the engines? more revolutions for the same amount of driving? oh well, who cares. performance wise. the 4EAT auto in the XT6 is supposed to be 90:10 split and the TCU switches to up to 60:40 split when slippage occurs according to the specs. i installed a switch to manually control Duty Solenoid C which controls lock up of the transfer clutches. i can lock them at will, don't know what percentages it gives, but all i know is that i always have 2 wheels turning and it binds like a truck on pavement if i keep it locked. excellent traction at my control. the LSD is much easier to come by for an automatic. shifting gets old and i drive alot and i can swap an auto trans faster than i can install a new clutch and i have to do it less often as well, so less maintenance for me = better. manual transmissions are nice in real sloppy stuff for two reasons. first if you are stuck it's easier to "rock" the car to get it to come out of serious ruts. if you plan on being burried to the point where mud is coming in the floor boards (been there, done that) when you open the doors alot...manuals are nice. you can rock an auto but it's trickier and more chance of messing something. second, if you're doing really slow creeping or crawling through slippery mud or snow then a stock manual is nice over stock auto. because and auto will slip for a fraction of a second before it locks up and that slight slipping can cause the wheels to slip and start ruts or make existing ruts worse...increasing your chance of getting stuck. on the other hand i now have control of the locking of the transfer clutches and that is no longer an issue any more. getting stuck in an XT6 has only happened when i'm burried in thick mud or snow down to the frame and it gets all compacted under the car. and even then i almost always can get out. it's always ground clearance related, so starting ruts is not a good thing. and locking the diff of the manual trans is a key feature, it locks the front to rear at 50/50 giving very good traction. if you're driving in moderate conditions where the conditions change often or aren't terrible, for instance snow in some places and fine in others then you wouldn't want to drive around with the diff locked at all times. occasional bad weather or driving conditions is handled nicely by auto's as they have AWD and lock up on an as needed basis by the TCU. but driving under lock up is also something that needs to get used to in a sense to really utilize it's full potential to power out of slide or regain control whether you're in a field or on the road. hope all the rambling makes sense. similar take on the LSD, for tearing through fields and snow and mud it is fantastic. for creeping and crawling i would imagine it's tendency to slip slightly just prior to locking is not desirable. but either way the LSD is only readily available for the auto, though you can get or make one for the Manual trans too. bottom line is both are really nice. i basically choose the auto because i'm tired of shifting, can lock it up anyway and the mileage is better (in mine, in the XT6 AWD) far less noise and RPM's on the highway and no clutch changing. nicer to drive long distance and still excellent AWD offroad capability. i'm not trying to start a debate about mileage, i realize others get better mileage on the manuals, just stating what i've experienced through my XT6 ownership which is all i know. i've owned 4 of each and dig them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjo Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 I'm probably the only hardcore auto offroad driver here....... The only reason I ever got stuck was ground clearance! I offroad it w/ my auto OBS and i'll agree with you there, clearance is the only issue i have. I hauled tree that fell over our road.. large tree... about 1.5-2ft diameter, and wicked long, neighbors thought it was funny, too bad i didn't get any puctures. Also, my subi has gone places one of my friends couldn't get w/ his manual jeep, in 4 lo w/ his diff locker on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 Gonna bump this... Is the VTD in the WRX (4.11) and Baja (4.44) 4EAT's an advantage? How about the new 5EAT's with VTD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 might want to check with the NASIOC guys. some of them guys should be quite familiar with the performance of these trans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted September 5, 2005 Share Posted September 5, 2005 might want to check with the NASIOC guys. some of them guys should be quite familiar with the performance of these trans. Oh they know all about the "performance" but not the Off road ability I have a friend who does alot of dirt road stuff with his 4EAT WRX, and it seems to work well, but so does every other subaru... I'm just wondering the VTD might have a specific advantage in loose stuff or when wheels end up in the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Supposedly the new AWD system will find the wheel with the most grip ( the one that isn't spinning) and send 100% of the power to that one wheel by applying the brakes and other computerized magic. No one has tested that yet, but could be interesting. This could make me turn in my 97 OBW for a new one. I'll see if i can find that link again. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 Supposedly the new AWD system will find the wheel with the most grip ( the one that isn't spinning) and send 100% of the power to that one wheel by applying the brakes and other computerized magic.No one has tested that yet, but could be interesting. This could make me turn in my 97 OBW for a new one. I'll see if i can find that link again. nipper Ya, the VTD (02+ wrx, Baja turbo, 5EAT 05+ legacy) autos are supposed to do that... I think the front diff is still open though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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