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take this with a grain of salt, but it looks like subaru's are a little below average.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-06-29-power-dependability-chart.htm

 

JD Power isn't the definative test of a car's reliability, and this doesn't mean I'm going to trade my subaru for a ford. I'm just a little surprised that subaru would rank so low.

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Numbers can be interpreted in many different ways. You can make them say almost anything. Think of it this way... out of those 50,000 owners surveyed, how many of them own Porsches? Probably not too many. But notice that Porsche is near the top of the rankings. Could this be because the few Porsche owners who were surveyed were lucky? From what I have read about them, they are NOT that reliable, as many high-performance cars are not. That is just one example.

 

Additionally, notice that although Jeep ranks near the bottom third on the problems-per-vehicle chart, the Jeep Liberty is somehow still one of the "top" vehicles in its segment. What does this mean?! There is no explanation of what that second chart means, and many of the cars in this second chart did not fare well in the manufacturer's listing in the first chart. I also notice that the majority of the "top" vehicles in the second chart did not fare nearly as well in the first chart; this majority are also coincidentally American cars ie Buick, Chevrolet, etc. Could this be bias?

 

Again, I reapeat, numbers are misleading, and can be made to say almost whatever you want them to say.

Brian

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I know what you mean about numbers- there's lies, damn lies, and statistics. as far as I can tell, the numbers are reported as #problems per 100 cars. so while there may not have been as many porsches as there were chevy's, I think the number was normalized. But if you meant there was a smaller sampling size for porches and therefore the confidence interval is greater, then I agree with you. as far as the jeep's concerned, maybe the liberty is the "shining star" in the jeep lineup?

 

another thing that surprised me was that the villager ranked higher than the sienna and the odyssey wasn't even mentioned.

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hard to believe those stats etc...

 

i have an 01 RS with over 100K on it and no major issues

none.

 

went through an 02 sensor and um... that's about it.

 

*shrug*

 

i now own 5 subaru's and wouldnt give any of them up for a domestic ;)

 

Jamie

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It's really tough to compare JDP and Consumer Report (CR) ratings for vehicles. CR applies a weighting to their various categories and the JDP number is just a sheer count of problems. That is a very significant difference!

 

Subaru is an excellent example. CR rates their products very highly because CR places more emphasis on driveline and AC reliability. Subarus have very reliable drivelines, but they have their share of little problems including wind noise, rattly hatches, flimsy cupholders and so on. I'm not sure about you guys, but I'd rather have a car that had ten minor faults than one that only had one: it pukes it's crank out through the oil pan. JDP does not make that distinction, and I personally feel it's an important one.

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It's really tough to compare JDP and Consumer Report (CR) ratings for vehicles. CR applies a weighting to their various categories and the JDP number is just a sheer count of problems. That is a very significant difference!

 

Subaru is an excellent example. CR rates their products very highly because CR places more emphasis on driveline and AC reliability. Subarus have very reliable drivelines, but they have their share of little problems including wind noise, rattly hatches, flimsy cupholders and so on. I'm not sure about you guys, but I'd rather have a car that had ten minor faults than one that only had one: it pukes it's crank out through the oil pan. JDP does not make that distinction, and I personally feel it's an important one.

 

well said!

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take this with a grain of salt, but it looks like subaru's are a little below average.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-06-29-power-dependability-chart.htm

 

JD Power isn't the definative test of a car's reliability, and this doesn't mean I'm going to trade my subaru for a ford. I'm just a little surprised that subaru would rank so low.

 

 

An old saying: Data sufficiently tortured will confess anything!

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It's really tough to compare JDP and Consumer Report (CR) ratings for vehicles. CR applies a weighting to their various categories and the JDP number is just a sheer count of problems. That is a very significant difference!

 

Subaru is an excellent example. CR rates their products very highly because CR places more emphasis on driveline and AC reliability. Subarus have very reliable drivelines, but they have their share of little problems including wind noise, rattly hatches, flimsy cupholders and so on. I'm not sure about you guys, but I'd rather have a car that had ten minor faults than one that only had one: it pukes it's crank out through the oil pan. JDP does not make that distinction, and I personally feel it's an important one.

 

I agree, also look in the classified, craigs lists, ebay, etc.

How many 100+ mile domestics do you see there? Better yet how many 200+ do you see?

But you will find subarus there all day long.

I have taken all of my 10 subarus over 100k and several into the 200k with no major issues.

Don’t believe everything you read.

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Numbers can be interpreted in many different ways. You can make them say almost anything. Think of it this way... out of those 50,000 owners surveyed, how many of them own Porsches? Probably not too many. But notice that Porsche is near the top of the rankings. Could this be because the few Porsche owners who were surveyed were lucky? From what I have read about them, they are NOT that reliable, as many high-performance cars are not. That is just one example.

 

Additionally, notice that although Jeep ranks near the bottom third on the problems-per-vehicle chart, the Jeep Liberty is somehow still one of the "top" vehicles in its segment. What does this mean?! There is no explanation of what that second chart means, and many of the cars in this second chart did not fare well in the manufacturer's listing in the first chart. I also notice that the majority of the "top" vehicles in the second chart did not fare nearly as well in the first chart; this majority are also coincidentally American cars ie Buick, Chevrolet, etc. Could this be bias?

 

Again, I reapeat, numbers are misleading, and can be made to say almost whatever you want them to say.

Brian

 

How to Lie with Statistics! :grin:

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I ain't buyin it.

 

Porsche most dependable sports car? I know I could depend on spending 500-1500 hundred dollars every time it went to the shop.

 

OK, I vented. As others have said, how does JD do their survey? Where can we see the details?

 

On my second Outback, not ONE problem with the first one and sold it because I had a windfall of money and liked the new ones....

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Let's talk about my car for instance. Defective clutch, defective clutch master, bad head gaskets.

The rest of the car was fine, but three major design problems? To Subaru's credit I think they realized the problems and have worked to correct them.

I bet the next survey is much better.

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Based on our 27,000 miles to date, I couldn't argue with a verdict of somewhat below average. We have a coolant smell (head gasket they aren't owning up to?), a replaced oxygen sensor, and a replaced power seat.

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My 2003 Otback Wagon with 44,000 miles. I have maintained this car well and driven it carefully:

 

19,000 miles-new throwout bearing

33,000 miles-two new pistons

36,000miles-new shortblock

If this is a typical example, my American brand cars have been MUCH more reliable!

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Individual stories don't count here. That's the whole point of doing surveys!

 

However, I am very much with Johngenx on this one. First of all, we need to know more about what constitutes a "problem".

 

Next up, if we define worn brakes as a problem within the three year span, would a Porsche driver who uses his/her car for trackdays report this as a problem?

 

On the other end of the scale, someone who choses a cheap car is less likely to complain, since they know they have elected for price over quality.

 

 

Any survey needs to be more informative about the questions asked.

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Subarus have very reliable drivelines, but they have their share of little problems including wind noise, rattly hatches, flimsy cupholders and so on.

+1

 

According to C.R., Subaru in general has tended to suffer from fit/finish/rattle problem in the first year of ownership, but "smooth-out" by years 3-5 in contrast to most vehicles having good off-the-line quality, but developing a greater number of mechanical problems shortly thereafter.

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I am very happy with my collection of little flimsy Japanese tin cans that rattle, make funny noises, don't always make freeway merging fun, always get me where I'm going comfortably, always start the first or second time, always go unnoticed by car thieves in mall parking lots, and always drive like mountain goats in the snow.

 

Subarus used to be cheap little cars that did everything you asked of them, and then some, if you didn't mind a couple of rough edges. Reliability has gone downhill slightly since then, but there are no longer any rough edges and you still can't beat one in the snow (Haaglund drivers don't count).

 

:-)

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