Mr. Carb Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I really hate it when insurance companys try to pull that crap. They did it to my dad when someone rear-ended him in his Ford Torus. Insurance company did the same thing, only wanted to give him about 400 bucks for it. Even though the car was in brand new condition before the accident. On a note, the dealer ship may only pay 400 bucks for it, but they'll sell it for about 1,800 bucks. The dealership market works like that. They'll say they'll only take it for a low amount, then sell it at a higher than blue book value. If I gave them my brat, they'd only give me 100 bucks for it, but they'd difinataly sell it for a good 3-4,000 bucks. So yeah, Difinatly do what everyone's suggesting, get the actual market values, blue book values, Here in the Seattle-tocoma area market and confront them with it. I frequently see 81-84 subaru wagons, manual, autos, in any condition, selling for atleast 800 bucks. I rarely see them ever lower than that. Usallaly they're in the 1200-2500 range. Depending on milliage and condition. I wish you good luck on this, and hope that insurance company doesn't rip you off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=49728 here's the original thread from when the accident happend. Totally the other person's fault. i tried sifting through all of this but see no response to who was at fault in this accident. you or the other person? details of the accident make a difference. the insurance company will always stall and have nothing to loose to sit on their rump and ignore you. if you had an attorney you'd be considered a possible liability to them and they would move much faster. know any lawyers? can you provide details of the accident? someone on here may be a lawyer or know one that can provide a simple letter to the insurance company. certified mail, all that jazz. you are best served to choose you own courses as well, trying every angle you can. whatever leads they give you would not be my highest priority. they may require some statements of value and i would persue those courses like you are now...but i also feel they are well versed in this area and can recount much of what you come up with. basically you are playing into their hand, by their rules. i'd persue other angles as well. look forward to seeing your hatch back (ha ha). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 okay i read the thread. your attorney isn't doing his job, get a new one if you haven't signed a contract with them yet. the insurance company will fix your car, you don't need to prove jack. get to the doctors, get checked out and get a good attorney. you're putting way too much time into this. a good attorney would already have the money to fix your car by now. you are not liable for ANYTHING if this accident wasn't your fault. you get what you want. a competent attorney will have no problem doing this for you, doing it alone will be tedious in my oppinion unless you're good or lucky. there is no need to prove anything, their client wrecked YOUR car and you want YOUR car back. end of story. in court they don't stand a chance and the lawyer should know this. demand better service from the lawyer or go get a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I also disagree with it... as a concept. That's not going to stop the insurance co. from making the assertion and adding another hurdle for you to jump, though. I have to disagree about the regional value differences. Since eBay came along, there is no such thing as "regional" value, it's whatever the market will bear. eBay is a very large market... full of eager buyers. A person in the NE would pay way more money than someone local to you. Soooo, whether or not the insurance company is prepared to accept it, it's fact and eBay does exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfinalcoffinx Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 As it stands now, I currently pay the attorney a small fee for legal advice, not to represent me to the insurance company. If I want him to represent me, I will have to pay him his hourly rate which is like way out of my price range, so I'm dealing with what I have. If it comes down to it, I'll get him in there, but I'd like to see what I can do on my own and see if I can save some cash. okay i read the thread. your attorney isn't doing his job, get a new one if you haven't signed a contract with them yet. the insurance company will fix your car, you don't need to prove jack. get to the doctors, get checked out and get a good attorney. you're putting way too much time into this. a good attorney would already have the money to fix your car by now. you are not liable for ANYTHING if this accident wasn't your fault. you get what you want. a competent attorney will have no problem doing this for you, doing it alone will be tedious in my oppinion unless you're good or lucky. there is no need to prove anything, their client wrecked YOUR car and you want YOUR car back. end of story. in court they don't stand a chance and the lawyer should know this. demand better service from the lawyer or go get a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 As it stands now, I currently pay the attorney a small fee for legal advice, not to represent me to the insurance company. If I want him to represent me, I will have to pay him his hourly rate which is like way out of my price range, so I'm dealing with what I have. If it comes down to it, I'll get him in there, but I'd like to see what I can do on my own and see if I can save some cash. you were hurt in the accident? that's all you need and an attorney will not charge you a penny until the case settles then take a percentage of the final settlement. the final settlements are sickening but that's how the game is played. my best friend...rear ended, totalled car, to the hospital. nothing payed to the attorney, 10,000 in his pocket once it was all said and done. that's how it works, best to play the game even if you disagree with it. is there any reason you can't take this route? i've gotten free advice from attorneys when i had questions because i didn't know jack about jack, around here they have a free "advisement", meet with them or even talk on the phone and they give you a quick run down free of charge. that being said, at least threaten lawsuit for them to cooperate fully on your terms. tell them you're trying to play nice here and not get crazy but you have spoken to a lawyer since they are not cooperating. give them his name, address, whatever. the ball is in your court, you need to act like it or they'll keep yanking you around. yo'ure giving the impression you have something to prove, but i'm sure it's confusing becuse they're feeding you all the BS. best bet is to ignore what they ask for, it most likely won't do any good. don't take advice from someone who could potentially owe you mad loot. get everything from them in writing, phone calls are too easy for them to lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 On the whole lawyer thing, if they know you have a lawyer, they may suddenly start paying attention. Different situation, but an example of the power of lawyers. We lived a mile up a dirt road when I was growing up. A logging operation destroyed part of the road so bad that our landrover couldn't even make it up. And my mom was 8 months pregnant with my brother at the time. Nothing made any difference in trying to make them fix it (we didn't own a bulldozer to do it, they did). Our neighboring landowner who didn't even live there, but happened to be a lawyer, called them. They were out there the next morning on a sunday fixing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfinalcoffinx Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 The only part I'm concerned with about having an attorney, is as soon as I notify them that I have an attorney working on my behalf, they won't talk to me any more, and will only have their attorney talk to my attorney, and by that start racking up the attorney fees. I'm going to see what I can do, drag this out, and then if I'm still not satifsfied, get the lawyer on it. Also, do you guys know what the laws are on rentals? They are claiming that the rental expires on Friday, I'm not satisfied with the settlement at this point, and I will have no transportation if they take the rental. Am I entitled to recieve the rental until the claim is settled, or are they correct about this? you were hurt in the accident? that's all you need and an attorney will not charge you a penny until the case settles then take a percentage of the final settlement. the final settlements are sickening but that's how the game is played. my best friend...rear ended, totalled car, to the hospital. nothing payed to the attorney, 10,000 in his pocket once it was all said and done. that's how it works, best to play the game even if you disagree with it. is there any reason you can't take this route? i've gotten free advice from attorneys when i had questions because i didn't know jack about jack, around here they have a free "advisement", meet with them or even talk on the phone and they give you a quick run down free of charge. that being said, at least threaten lawsuit for them to cooperate fully on your terms. tell them you're trying to play nice here and not get crazy but you have spoken to a lawyer since they are not cooperating. give them his name, address, whatever. the ball is in your court, you need to act like it or they'll keep yanking you around. yo'ure giving the impression you have something to prove, but i'm sure it's confusing becuse they're feeding you all the BS. best bet is to ignore what they ask for, it most likely won't do any good. don't take advice from someone who could potentially owe you mad loot. get everything from them in writing, phone calls are too easy for them to lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 You haven't seen the pictures of this car. It was perfect. There's a thread a few pages back with pictures. Is there any chance of getting a "classic car" valuation of it, or something from someone who deals with non-standard cars? This wasn't just any beat up Subaru. -=Russ=- That doesnt matter to them. Its 20+ year old car with no collectability. Sure, there are a few people here who would spend $1000 on a old Subaru, I know I would, but thats not the value of the car for insurance purposes. There are differences between percieved value, retail value, private sale value, and insurance value. I know you probably definatly need more money than $400 or you might have alot of trouble replacing the car, but thats a risk when you drive such an old car with no real value. I do hope you can get them to part with more money, but you have a huge burecratic fight on your hands... However, I noticed you havent stated the name of the company... Which company is it? I have to disagree about the regional value differences. Regional value differences are more drastic than you think. Used Imprezas and Legacys here in California are very expensive. When my '95 Impreza was totaled, I got $4000 for it. I was surprised I got that much, but if you can't find a used Impreza in California for much less than that, especially since it was a 5-speed with AWD. (FWD Imprezas still go for $3000) My replacement Impreza cost $6000, and its a 95 as well (albiet with an RS drivetrain ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlelegacy Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Ahhh... this all sounds so familiar. I went through it last year. Unfortunately, I was injured, and had (have) an attorney. They pulled my rental car in like 3 days. Total BS, but it was there in the fine print. If my car was going to be repaired (I was rear-ended, totaled the car) I could have had the rental for the whole time the car was in the shop. Since they were paying me out on the car, I had to settle for only 5 days with the rental, at what I thought was a fair price. They said the car was worth 4k, and after some arguing, I got it to 5k. The funniest part of my whole experience was when the other guys insurance company called me and offered me 250.00 for my "troubles". I was taken to the ER by medics and they wanted to pay me $250.00 for my troubles. That barely covered my day away from work. The total damages in this accident (I was plowed into the car in front of me too) are probably going to be in the area of 50 grand. I know my medical expenses alone are still pushing 15K. And they wanted to offer me $250.00! Insurance companies are the slimiest people in the world, period. Jordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Theres a couple of people off the board here that have gotten market value for their old Subaru's. Bratsrus is one of them, he got $5k when his Brat was totaled. He had proof of the market value, so I suggest you get a hold of him to find out what he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durania Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I'm currently trying to contact the guy, I'm hoping he responds! Thanks for the lead! Glad I could help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1maBrat Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Regarding the Subie price, we have a written appraisel for our " 79 Brat " it is stated as being worth $3942.65 CDN. that was 1 yr ago. That is what we needed for our Insurance but then if you don't have replacement value listed on your policy the most Insurance companies go with the cheapest they can get away with. If this would help you we can email a copy to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Regional value differences are more drastic than you think. Used Imprezas and Legacys here in California are very expensive. When my '95 Impreza was totaled, I got $4000 for it. I was surprised I got that much, but if you can't find a used Impreza in California for much less than that, especially since it was a 5-speed with AWD. (FWD Imprezas still go for $3000) My replacement Impreza cost $6000, and its a 95 as well (albiet with an RS drivetrain ) I don't think you understood what I meant by there being no regional values. A buyer in WA, OR or CO may only pay $500 for an old Subaru, but a NE buyer would part with much, much more just because they just simply aren't available or are rusted out hulks. So yes, there are extreme differences in values of vehicles by region. But eBay, Autotrader, craigslist and the like, have broken the barriers that have prohibited the average person from reaching those buyers. So people have a whole new audience of potential buyers, not just local people. He could have fetched a pretty penny selling the car on eBay... therefore his "regional" or local value is a moot issue and eBay, Autotrader, etc. past sales are more realistic in determining the fair market value of the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfinalcoffinx Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 Past sales are excellent, except that the insurance company insists that they aren't legitimate sales unless they can see a bill of sale on the car, which is preposterous. By bidding on ebay, you are entering a binding contract to pay a specified amount to the seller, and that is indeed the sale price. I don't think you understood what I meant by there being no regional values. A buyer in WA, OR or CO may only pay $500 for an old Subaru, but a NE buyer would part with much, much more just because they just simply aren't available or are rusted out hulks. So yes, there are extreme differences in values of vehicles by region. But eBay, Autotrader, craigslist and the like, have broken the barriers that have prohibited the average person from reaching those buyers. So people have a whole new audience of potential buyers, not just local people. He could have fetched a pretty penny selling the car on eBay... therefore his "regional" or local value is a moot issue and eBay, Autotrader, etc. past sales are more realistic in determining the fair market value of the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 That's crazy... yes, a win on eBay is a binding legal transaction. The other route is to take the responsible party to small claims court. No lawyer is necessary, but trying to collect on the judgement can be as tough as squeezing it out of the insurance company. Just the thought of a summons may provoke them into insisting their insurer cover their potential loss determined by a judge and not the insurer's twisted sense of value. They paid for a policy to protect them against this type of loss and I would expect they would want the benefits it should be providing. I know I would be rather eager to get my insurance company to pay off instead of it coming out of my pocket! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfinalcoffinx Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 WTF? How about THIS. HAHA I'll be faxing this to the lady at the insurance company tomorrow, and reading it aloud over the phone to her as well. I AM allowed to use newspaper ads as well as other auto publications, so really, what they tell me is all LIES! Awesome. 13. They've declared my vehicle a total loss but won't pay me enough to replace it. Is that legal? The company owes you the actual cash value of a comparable vehicle in your local area. You can determine this amount by using dealer quotes and/or newspaper ads or other auto sales publications, as long as the vehicle being sold is comparable to yours in mileage, condition, options, etc. In addition they will pay you sales tax on the value of your vehicle, and pay the unused portion of your registration fees. You may have the option of keeping your car (called - retaining the salvage). If you do, the company will subtract the value of the salvage from the final settlement, as you are keeping the damaged car. (WAC 284-30-3901 through WAC 284-30-3916) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Cool, the RCW paragraphs should be added to the USRM under a new heading called LEGAL! WTF? How about THIS. HAHA I'll be faxing this to the coose at the insurance company tomorrow, and reading it aloud over the phone to her as well. I AM allowed to use newspaper ads as well as other auto publications, so they can blow me. Awesome. 13. They've declared my vehicle a total loss but won't pay me enough to replace it. Is that legal? The company owes you the actual cash value of a comparable vehicle in your local area. You can determine this amount by using dealer quotes and/or newspaper ads or other auto sales publications, as long as the vehicle being sold is comparable to yours in mileage, condition, options, etc. In addition they will pay you sales tax on the value of your vehicle, and pay the unused portion of your registration fees. You may have the option of keeping your car (called - retaining the salvage). If you do, the company will subtract the value of the salvage from the final settlement, as you are keeping the damaged car. (WAC 284-30-3901 through WAC 284-30-3916) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfinalcoffinx Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 No kidding! I would seriously be willing to do a ton of work on that, just so people who are in similar situations don't have to go through all of the garbage/BS advice out there, and aren't thrown on a wild goose chase for bills of sale and similar just so that they can dance for the insurance company. It drives me nuts, in much the same way gift cards/certificates do. As soon as another party has the money, or the item or whatever it is that you want, they place all of their restrictions on it. Like expriation dates on gift certificates, and the policy in most stores to "not give change." It's just funny that as soon as the power is in most people's hands, they abuse it. Cool, the RCW paragraphs should be added to the USRM under a new heading called LEGAL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 He could have fetched a pretty penny selling the car on eBay... therefore his "regional" or local value is a moot issue and eBay, Autotrader, etc. past sales are more realistic in determining the fair market value of the vehicle. Usually Ebay/Internet private sale prices I see are lower than local private sales (newspaper, used car lots, private sale signs on cars, and the local private sale "meet" every weekend) but in this case probably not for this car. Although I do see alot of 80's subarus in the sub $500 range on Craigslist... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfinalcoffinx Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 Under 500 perhaps, but not in the condition that mine was in. The company just doesn't seem to understand that this car was in excellent shape, and they are comparing it to rusted out, ticking cv joints, noisy exhaust, sticky transmission heaps of junk. I'm not sure how I'm going to make them see that their "comperable cars" are garbage... Usually Ebay/Internet private sale prices I see are lower than local private sales (newspaper, used car lots, private sale signs on cars, and the local private sale "meet" every weekend) but in this case probably not for this car. Although I do see alot of 80's subarus in the sub $500 range on Craigslist... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 it is good for you to work this out yourself if you can, the benefit is that you'll get $$ much quicker if you can solve it on your own. do not trust anything the insurance company says, they are trained in this where you are not. you are their little pawn at this point. anything they say likely has ulterior motives. i would suggest you need to creatively word some statements about hiring a lawyer and taking this to court. no threats, no emotion, but put it on the table that it is still an option if they won't cooperate. be advised too if they do offer more money, they may want you to sign papers that absolve them of any further responsibility. that being said, make sure your medical bills are still covered or they are still liable for any future medical bills you may have. another good reason to have an attorney, they are familiar with that. The only part I'm concerned with about having an attorney, is as soon as I notify them that I have an attorney working on my behalf, they won't talk to me any more, and will only have their attorney talk to my attorney, and by that start racking up the attorney fees. in cases like this, attorneys do not charge fees in the typical sense, they take a percentage. you will get alot more $ if you have an attorney, but it will take longer in some cases (depends on the attorney/accident). in my oppinion it's best to let the snakes of the world duke it out (lawyers and insurance companies) and just give me the $ when they're done. you're looking for what, a grand or two? an attorney will leave you with $5,000-$15,000. they'll get about 20,000 and take roughly %50, but you're still left with alot more than you'll get on your own. they don't charge $10,000, they charge a percentage of the total...IF THEY WIN. (which they always do in easy cases like this). if they get nothing, you pay nothing. that's why i'm surprised you've alreayd payed "a small fee", most lawyers don't charge in cases like this. actually none do that i've ever heard of in accident cases. they have a quick assessment of the accident, if they think they'll win they take the case and percentage. if they think there's not a chance they won't take the case and no cost to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Under 500 perhaps, but not in the condition that mine was in. The company just doesn't seem to understand that this car was in excellent shape. this has nothing to do with understanding. this is about making money. the less they pay out, the more they stall, the more they burden you, the more money they make. here's an analogy of sorts. at this point there is no benefit to paying you, no benefit to the company. the only recourse you have might be to say it's a law they have to give you fair market value. you've already told them (through action) you don't want to involve lawyers and the court. the only way to enforce this law is to take them to court which brings you right back to where we started. the very thing you're trying to avoid (the system of law) is also the thing you're trying to use to sway them in your favor. that being said.....friday's rental deadline might be a good leverage point for you in terms of forcing them to make a final offer or decision on fair market value or.....whatever it is you plan to do if they don't cooperate. good luck man and we all look forward to seeing you come out on top of these pigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 so, you're switching insurance companies, right? One addendum to Gary's advice.. not ALL lawyers work on that percentage basis but many advertise that they do, so you may have to look for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfinalcoffinx Posted January 20, 2006 Author Share Posted January 20, 2006 Of course I'm switching! It's not my policy that I'm dealing with, but it just so happens that it is the same company. They are using that to try to destroy me. They are saying that "if it's a collector's car, why didnt you have full coverage on it" which is bull, because if I was insured with another company, and was dealing with you in the same way, you would't know what I had in the way of insurance on it. These creeps are scum. They had 71 complaints against them last year, and aren't even that big of a company in Washington. They didn't register on the list of top collectors in WA but were right up there in complaints in the same state which tells me that they are just about the worst you can get. Small company, very few insured under them, yet they are competative for the number one spot in complaints filed to the insurance commissioner. so, you're switching insurance companies, right? One addendum to Gary's advice.. not ALL lawyers work on that percentage basis but many advertise that they do, so you may have to look for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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