seanliu Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Help!!! I am replacing front axles with re-manufactured ones on both sides. I have searched the USMB before I plunged into changing my own front driveshaft. I am working on axle on the passenger side now. I have so far removed the CV axle from the 98 Forester with unexpected ease. My problem is now with the installation of the new re-manufactured front axle assembly. I followed the instructions from Subaru Factory Service Manual and End Wrench (basically same instructions) by first inserting the spline into the hub and hand tightened it according to the instructions and I have a very difficult time to push the inboard section of the axle onto the transmission spline after aligning the hole (I believe I considered how holes were drilled - between the splines and at the spline). Why I cannot push the axle onto the transmission spline? Everyone I knew from the board here didn't seem to encounter this kind of problem. Any suggestions? By the way, I detached the stabilizer link from the lower control arm and the lower control arm from the hub by prying ball joint out of the clamp that connects the lower control arm to the hub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctoth Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 compare the old shaft to the new and make sure they are the same size. I got one that was a different size before because the parts store had 2 different numbers for my car(95 obw sport). After I inspected them both, the new one was visibly smaller. I just grabbed one (should've grabbed both and returned one) and it didn't fit. They should just slide right on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 sometimes you need to rock it back and forth or turn it a little to get the splines to line up. they can be picky and want to set dead on before it'll slide. if there are different axles (i'm not familiar with all the varieties of EJ's out there) count the splines on the transmission output shaft or on the old CV shaft and see if they match the new one too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanliu Posted February 10, 2006 Author Share Posted February 10, 2006 The size of splines seems OK since I need to replace both front axle shafts, so I have one new axle lying there and an old one also. Does steering wheel oritentation have anything to do with the difficulty I am experiencing? I noticed that the steering is not straight up. Also, I installed the outer end of the axle first (based on the instructions from Subaru), does that contribute to the problem I have? Thank you. seanliu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwatt Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Help!!! I am replacing front axles with re-manufactured ones on both sides. I have searched the USMB before I plunged into changing my own front driveshaft. I am working on axle on the passenger side now. I have so far removed the CV axle from the 98 Forester with unexpected ease. My problem is now with the installation of the new re-manufactured front axle assembly. I followed the instructions from Subaru Factory Service Manual and End Wrench (basically same instructions) by first inserting the spline into the hub and hand tightened it according to the instructions and I have a very difficult time to push the inboard section of the axle onto the transmission spline after aligning the hole (I believe I considered how holes were drilled - between the splines and at the spline). Why I cannot push the axle onto the transmission spline? Everyone I knew from the board here didn't seem to encounter this kind of problem. Any suggestions? By the way, I detached the stabilizer link from the lower control arm and the lower control arm from the hub by prying ball joint out of the clamp that connects the lower control arm to the hub. Are you trying to install the inboard end of the shaft into the transmission after you have bolted the outboard end of the shaft into the hub? If that's the case, unbolt the outboard end of the axle from the hub. You'll find this job much easier if you slide the inboard end of the shaft into the transmission first (before sliding the outboard end into the hub) and tap the roll pin into position, then use a bar to pry the hub assembly outward slightly---that will allow you to glide the outboard end splines into the hub, then install the 32 mm nut on the end of the shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanliu Posted February 10, 2006 Author Share Posted February 10, 2006 Thank everyone who responded to my plead. Now I have managed to slide the axle onto the spline of the transmission. I found out there seemed to be a VERY small gap between the end of the inboard end of the axle and the transmission. I tried to push axle more to close the gap and I failed. The holes seem to line up (I used a small screwdriver with Philip head to probe the holes). However, I had hard time to hammer in the spring pin. Am I too cautious or is there something not right? seanliu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjo Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 yeah.. i deff. put the tranny side on 1st, SO MUCH EASIER. i used a drill bit to probe for the hole, because i put on the hub side. ALSO, to get the pin in, i took all my socket extensions (like 10-13" of extensions), put a tiny socket on the end of this contraption, so th epin doesn't slide around, and hammered on it that way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanliu Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 yeah.. i deff. put the tranny side on 1st, SO MUCH EASIER. i used a drill bit to probe for the hole, because i put on the hub side. ALSO, to get the pin in, i took all my socket extensions (like 10-13" of extensions), put a tiny socket on the end of this contraption, so th epin doesn't slide around, and hammered on it that way... I still have hard time to hammer in the pin (it seems to be stuck in the opening of the axle hole). I used a Lock Technology's Axle Pin tool designed for Subaru. There is little space where can swing my hammer underneath the car. By the way, is it a good idea to push in the pin with a bottle jack or floor jack? What is the possible downside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwatt Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 I still have hard time to hammer in the pin (it seems to be stuck in the opening of the axle hole). I used a Lock Technology's Axle Pin tool designed for Subaru. There is little space where can swing my hammer underneath the car. By the way, is it a good idea to push in the pin with a bottle jack or floor jack? What is the possible downside? The pin should be a tight fit--you need to use a hammer and a correct size punch to drive the pin in properly. I purchased a set of extra long punches from Sears and it made the job much easier. Also---did you match up the chamfered surface of the hole in the transmission output shaft with the chamfered surface of the hole in the inboard end of the axle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanliu Posted February 12, 2006 Author Share Posted February 12, 2006 The pin should be a tight fit--you need to use a hammer and a correct size punch to drive the pin in properly. I purchased a set of extra long punches from Sears and it made the job much easier. Also---did you match up the chamfered surface of the hole in the transmission output shaft with the chamfered surface of the hole in the inboard end of the axle? I only paid attention to the chambered surface on the axle, not the splines of the tranny. If that is the problem, I might just keep hammering. However, I did a foolish thing, when I discovered that I could use a small screwdriver to drive through the holes, I thought I could try the other side with another roll pin. I did not realize that the screwdriver was way too small to give an accurate indication that the holes were perfectly aligned. According to EDRACH, guru of Subaru axle on this board, if the alignment is 180 degree off when you slide the axle in, the holes are partially lined up. So there is enough space for small screwdriver going through but not enough for roll pin to go through. So I have two roll pins stuck on both sides of the axle and I could not slide the axle out of the tranny (if I could, I can knock the pins out on the bench). And I made further mistake by trying to drive a small screwdriver through the center of a roll pin and now the screwdriver itself is stuck. Oh, man it is really bad. I don't know how to remove the screwdriver as well as the roll pins on the axle. Any idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevecd Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 if use some vise grips and just get it really tight and pull that should do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanliu Posted February 12, 2006 Author Share Posted February 12, 2006 if use some vise grips and just get it really tight and pull that should do it I will give it a try and do it tomorrow (I need to go out to buy a suitable one and the area I live is blanketed with 2' snow). Thank you. Any other ideas from other folks here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwatt Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I only paid attention to the chambered surface on the axle, not the splines of the tranny. If that is the problem, I might just keep hammering. However, I did a foolish thing, when I discovered that I could use a small screwdriver to drive through the holes, I thought I could try the other side with another roll pin. I did not realize that the screwdriver was way too small to give an accurate indication that the holes were perfectly aligned. According to EDRACH, guru of Subaru axle on this board, if the alignment is 180 degree off when you slide the axle in, the holes are partially lined up. So there is enough space for small screwdriver going through but not enough for roll pin to go through. So I have two roll pins stuck on both sides of the axle and I could not slide the axle out of the tranny (if I could, I can knock the pins out on the bench). And I made further mistake by trying to drive a small screwdriver through the center of a roll pin and now the screwdriver itself is stuck. Oh, man it is really bad. I don't know how to remove the screwdriver as well as the roll pins on the axle. Any idea? Try to get a small pair of Vise Grip pliers to lock tightly onto the screwdriver shaft, and use the pliers to twist the screwdriver back and forth---see if that will back it out. That small pair of Vice Grips might also work to clamp tightly onto those roll pins so you can twist them out, too. Of course, your gonna' destroy the roll pins in the process but they're cheap compared to the axle assembly. On the passenger's side of the vehicle, it's probably easiest to work from underneath. Once you've managed to extract the pins and the screwdriver, you can slide the inboard side of the axle shaft onto the transmission output shaft---but if you are working from underneath, you'll be able to see right thru the two holes if the splines line up exactly. Just make sure the chamfered hole on the axle shaft slides over the chamfered hole on the output shaft. Go to Sears. Buy that set of extra-long punches. You'll be able to drive the roll pin in properly from under the vehicle with the right punch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanliu Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Try to get a small pair of Vise Grip pliers to lock tightly onto the screwdriver shaft, and use the pliers to twist the screwdriver back and forth---see if that will back it out. That small pair of Vice Grips might also work to clamp tightly onto those roll pins so you can twist them out, too. Of course, your gonna' destroy the roll pins in the process but they're cheap compared to the axle assembly.On the passenger's side of the vehicle, it's probably easiest to work from underneath. Once you've managed to extract the pins and the screwdriver, you can slide the inboard side of the axle shaft onto the transmission output shaft---but if you are working from underneath, you'll be able to see right thru the two holes if the splines line up exactly. Just make sure the chamfered hole on the axle shaft slides over the chamfered hole on the output shaft. Go to Sears. Buy that set of extra-long punches. You'll be able to drive the roll pin in properly from under the vehicle with the right punch. mwatt: I will do it tomorrow. Also I discovered that you can use a long extension of cordless power drill/screwdriver to drive the roll pin, of course, after I take out the pins and the battered screwdriver. I will post what happens in this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo358 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I will give it a try and do it tomorrow (I need to go out to buy a suitable one and the area I live is blanketed with 2' snow). Thank you. Any other ideas from other folks here? Hi, I just replaced a cv axle on a 98 forester also. I ran into the same problem with the roll pin. I had to regroup, and pull it back out. After removing it again, I noticed that the roll pin wasnt tapered at the end as much as the original, and i had burred it up trying to get it in the hole. I removed it, compared the 2 pins, and noticed much more taper in the original. I took new one out, and used the original, and it went right in with no probs, after spending almost all day fighting the new one. Hope this solves your problem, it did mine. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedZ Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Hi, Vise grips are the way to go and when i get in a jam like this i use the duck bill vise grips. They get in tighter spots. Then simply take any wedge shaped object, cold chisel for example, and get between the axle and vise grips with a little tapping. Should work. Ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanliu Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Hi, I just replaced a cv axle on a 98 forester also. I ran into the same problem with the roll pin. I had to regroup, and pull it back out. After removing it again, I noticed that the roll pin wasnt tapered at the end as much as the original, and i had burred it up trying to get it in the hole. I removed it, compared the 2 pins, and noticed much more taper in the original. I took new one out, and used the original, and it went right in with no probs, after spending almost all day fighting the new one. Hope this solves your problem, it did mine. Steve Steve: Good insight! I noticed the old one is different from the new one but had not heard of anyone complaining so I did not keep the old one (I also noticed the old one broke off a small bit). My question for you is, how did you pull out the new pin? I am using a couple of vise grip pliers and was able to remove the stuck screwdriver but not the roll pin yet. seanliu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanliu Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Hi, Vise grips are the way to go and when i get in a jam like this i use the duck bill vise grips. They get in tighter spots. Then simply take any wedge shaped object, cold chisel for example, and get between the axle and vise grips with a little tapping. Should work. Ted Ted: Are the duck bill vise grips the long nose slim-shaped vise grips? By the way, I find the way of removing pin with vise grips you suggested interesting. Did you clamp the vise grips on the end of the exposed portion of the roll pin and then used a cold chisel to leverage the pin out? I just gripped the pin with vise grips and twisted and pulled so the pin did not budge. I will try your method. Thanks. Any more innovative ideas? I thought about drilling with a power drill but decided that it was almost impossible to do it under the car, particularly on the passenger side. seanliu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Is this great or what? No more hanging around nasty cold/hot/whatever garages and watching people fix cars to learn how to do it myself. After forty years of that now I get to sit in a nice chair, drink a little wine and follow the drama of live mechanicing via USMB. Life is good. Thanks guys for the education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo358 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Steve: Good insight! I noticed the old one is different from the new one but had not heard of anyone complaining so I did not keep the old one (I also noticed the old one broke off a small bit). My question for you is, how did you pull out the new pin? I am using a couple of vise grip pliers and was able to remove the stuck screwdriver but not the roll pin yet. seanliu Hi, I ended up pulling the cv axle back out of the vehicle, and regrouping. It came back out with the pin still in the one hole. once i got it on my tire that was laying on the ground, I punched it back out. if you get it out, I would recommend you find a bench grinder, and bevel the end a little more, so it will help find the hole. Hope this helps, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanliu Posted February 14, 2006 Author Share Posted February 14, 2006 Hi, I ended up pulling the cv axle back out of the vehicle, and regrouping. It came back out with the pin still in the one hole. once i got it on my tire that was laying on the ground, I punched it back out. if you get it out, I would recommend you find a bench grinder, and bevel the end a little more, so it will help find the hole. Hope this helps, Steve I think you were lucky. I am beyond pulling the-axle-assembly-out stage. Small portion (I don't know how much or how) of the spring pin is in the output axle of the tranny. So without pulling pins out I cannot re-do the installation. I thought about prying the axle assembly out with a pry bar against the tranny but it does not seem to be working (I did not try very hard for obvious reasons). Regarding the duckbill-vise-grips-and-cold-chisel method, I practiced it on my other new axle assembly, I found, unless you can make the vise grips grip the end of the pin very very tight, you will only move the vise grips around with a wedge tool like cold chisel. This is even more challenging in the confined space. I can see the point of using this method, but when you use the vise grip, the tightness of gripping depends on how far you can turn the screw of the vise grips with your thumb and index finger or how strong is your hand to force the completion of tight gripping of an object. Am I wrong? seanliu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanliu Posted February 14, 2006 Author Share Posted February 14, 2006 I am still struggling to get this thing over with. I am wondering if anyone knows about the hardness of the steel that the roll pin is made from. seanliu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2X2KOB Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Hardness = quite. A test: Can you file it, or does your file sort of bounce off of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevecd Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I am still struggling to get this thing over with. I am wondering if anyone knows about the hardness of the steel that the roll pin is made from. seanliu Not sure where you are on the installation but I’m guessing you are tiring to get the roll pin in the axle now that you have it in right. Well if it doesn't slide in easily you could try some pb blaster or something alike which should make it easier. ~Stevecd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanliu Posted February 14, 2006 Author Share Posted February 14, 2006 Not sure where you are on the installation but I’m guessing you are tiring to get the roll pin in the axle now that you have it in right. Well if it doesn't slide in easily you could try some pb blaster or something alike which should make it easier.~Stevecd My situation is the same as yesterday. P.B. Blaster has been used once and will try it again. I have not been able to take out the pins and so I cannot pull out the new axle. Does everyone know if the line-up of the holes are 180 degree off the"perfect line-up", what happens if someone hammers in a new roll pin? I am wondering if my line-up is 180 degree off or something else. seanliu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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