3Pin Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Can you tow an Outback in Neutral on all 4 Tires 3-400 miles? I know you can't tow truck it on two wheels, but can you tow it behind a truck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 is this an automatic or manual nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Pretty sure if its a MT and has no LSD in the rear, you're OK. I'd double check with your manual or at http://www.cars101.com and confirm you have proper tire pressure. Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Pin Posted April 10, 2006 Author Share Posted April 10, 2006 is this an automatic or manual nipper automatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 I realise everything ever written says "NO you can't tow Autos...Fool!", but i've had to tow my Honda Auto for 20miles in neutral and it didnt blow up. I dont know what the technical reasoning is for saying "no towing" with autos but i think if you keep the speed down and the distance minimal it should be ok. KELTIK p.s - i accept no responsibility for tears before bedtime if this advice gets you in the brown stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TROGDOR! Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Automatic transmissions become pressurized when the engine is running, and this pressure also pumps the fluid around, which lubricates the tranny. Pulling the car with the transmission in neutral will still turn the internals of the tranny. Without the pressure coming from the turning of the engine, however, the transmission will recieve no lubrication. Over a distance, this can result in the internals of the transmission actually melting. (seen it on a Dodge Dakota that was towed with wheels down) DO NOT tow it with the wheels down. Whoever mentioned that they got away with that before got very, very lucky. For towing with 4 wheels down: remove the front axle shafts, but leave the spindles in the hubs to hold everything together. Pretty labor intensive to take apart and reassemble the axles. Unbolt the rear section of the drive shaft to keep the rear wheels from turning the transmission. For towing with the rear wheels down, on a dolly: Unbolt the rear section of the drive shaft only. With the rear diff disconnected from the trans, you're good to go. The car can even be driven on and off the dolly this way if you insert the FWD fuse under the hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnuman Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Damnit Trog! you beat me to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Woo i was lucky! But in my defence i never said it was a good idea. Still it was better than leaving my wagon on the rough side of town. Im interested in what your saying about the fluid getting pumped around, i had my transmission in drive whilst towing - wouldnt this have a similar effect as engine braking and decelleration? I've read all about how an auto tranny works yet i still cant figure this out? KELTIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 I retract my earlier question, found a thread explaining that the trans oil pump is driven off the engine not the....other one (whatever youd call it). So yes i was a bad boy and DONT do it! And no, my transmission isnt perfect (never has been) and its possible the towing contributed to this. I mean honestly - how much harder is it to pick up a car trailer from the local garage. Thirty bucks for a hire trailer compared to hundreds for a transmission. KELTIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zefy Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 keltik I realise everything ever written says "NO you can't tow Autos...Fool!", but i've had to tow my Honda Auto for 20miles in neutral and it didnt blow up. I dont know what the technical reasoning is for saying "no towing" with autos but i think if you keep the speed down and the distance minimal it should be ok. i do believe it is safer to tow a honda auto then a normal one... this is due to the honda autos being based on their standards... unlike normal auto trans which have drums and bands and the like the hondas actually have gears just like the standards... you can prove this to yourself by driving it in reverse... you know that wrrrrrr'ing sound you get when driving in reverse? this is because the gears are straight cut instead of helical cut... (so if you were looking at the gear from the top with the gear standing straight up it looks like |||||||| while the helical looks more like /////////...) honda autos are just like the standards and they have this type of gear... try it out... drive your auto honda in reverse and see... then drive pretty much any other car (except a saturn) and listen... you won't hear anything... so i bet that has something to do with it not blowing up in your face... so there is some useless trivia for you...:-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltik Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Yea actually i have noticed that! Also noticed my trans will "lock up" when im accelerating. Also noticed my ATF sits at the same level on the dipstick with the engine stopped/running/in drive/in neutral....... Bloody Hondas KELTIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 subaru trans fluid are a hard read. i'm not sure why, maybe the fluid splashes around and gets on the dip stick giving faulty readings. i took my 95 leg in for a severly leaking rear seal. (i was at speed ont he hiway , felt a shutter, and when i got home 15 min later fluid was running out of the trans.) they replaced the seal, and sent me on my way, $@%)!!! 125 miles later i lost reverse. checked the fluid level, wasn't sure. so i bought and add 3 qts of fluid. rechecked it, and noticed a slight difference in readings. went back to the shop and asked how much fluid they put in, "NONE, we checked it and the level was fine." so check your level when you know it's good so you'll have a way to compare when it's low. also, i here ther is only about 1 pint of fluid difference between hot and cold . any comments. Yea actually i have noticed that! Also noticed my trans will "lock up" when im accelerating. Also noticed my ATF sits at the same level on the dipstick with the engine stopped/running/in drive/in neutral....... Bloody Hondas KELTIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 I just assumed its the center diff in the auto that's the issue - probably because there's no fluid pressure or, even if there is, the duty C solenoid is in the wrong condition and torque bind will build up. I dunno Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacinjason Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Quote: Over a distance, this can result in the internals of the transmission actually melting. (seen it on a Dodge Dakota that was towed with wheels down) I actually had an '01 Dakota Quad Cab 4x4 MT with LSD rearend that I traded in on my '06 Baja Turbo MT. It had a button on the 4WD switch that you had to push in with a pen or something (so you wouldn't hit it on accident, kind of like setting cetain watches) that would put the transfer case in neutral for towing. This was so you could tow it behind a motorhome or whatever with no drivetrain damage. Pretty good idea in my opinion. You just had to remember to take it out of nuetral when you wanted to drive, or you would go no where! Too bad Subaru didn't do the same! Maybe they couldn;t due to the AWD being different then the 4WD system on the Dakota? Or maybe the neutral switch only came with the 4WD on the Dakota's and not the 2WD. Not sure. All I know is that just to be on the safe side, if I ever need to have my Subaru towed, I'm going to make sure it's on a trailer. Better safe them sorry! Hopefully it will never need to be towed! Just wanted to say that this is an awesome site, and the members here seem very knowledgable and helpful. I've enjoyed visiting this site everyday, and have learned lots about my Subaru since joining this site! Thanks to everyone for being so helpful! I look forward to visiting this site for many years to come. Spacinjason:burnout: PS- How do you quote phrases from other posts? [/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacinjason Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 I figured out how to post quotes from other posts, so ignore my question on above post! Guess I was not awake enough yet to figure it out! Spacinjason:burnout: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbird Man Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Damnit Trog! you beat me to it. Of course he beat you, he's the burninator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Pin Posted April 12, 2006 Author Share Posted April 12, 2006 Thanks for all of the comments. Looks like a trailer will work just fine!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbird Man Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 another option would be to put it in park with one front and one rear axle disconnected, though that could be hard on diffs (and obviously no LSD). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Another option would be to tow the motorhome. Just thinking outside the box. Juan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 You cant flat tow an automatic. The reason is that even when in neutral all the dodas in the tranny are spinning making heat. Modern tranies only have a front pump, which is driven by the engine. When the engine is off no fluid circulates. This is also the reason you cant push start a automatic. Without a rear pump the fluid does not circulate to cool off the tranny internals. Transmission melts real fast. I have been told that if your flat towing and do it with either the car ideling, or stop every 20 miles and start the car to let the tranny cool down all is well. Makes a trailer look welcomed. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 i do believe it is safer to tow a honda auto then a normal one... this is due to the honda autos being based on their standards... unlike normal auto trans which have drums and bands and the like the hondas actually have gears just like the standards... you can prove this to yourself by driving it in reverse... you know that wrrrrrr'ing sound you get when driving in reverse? this is because the gears are straight cut instead of helical cut... (so if you were looking at the gear from the top with the gear standing straight up it looks like |||||||| while the helical looks more like /////////...) honda autos are just like the standards and they have this type of gear... try it out... drive your auto honda in reverse and see... then drive pretty much any other car (except a saturn) and listen... you won't hear anything... so i bet that has something to do with it not blowing up in your face... so there is some useless trivia for you...:-p Sigh Hondas have clutch packs and bands. They also have planetary gear sets like everyone else does. In an automatic transmission (excluding the manuals trying to be automatics which honda does not have) everything is spinning and in contact with everything else. By stopping a set of gears in the plaentary gear is how you get your differnt speeds. The reason that the fluid level is the same because honda uses extra check valves to keep the fluid from drining back into the pan. The whine you are hearing is not because of reverse gear, but due to the cut of the gears in the differential in hondas. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/automatic-transmission3.htm has a simple explination of reverse. There is no seperate reverse gear. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 This is also the reason you cant push start a automatic. Without a rear pump the fluid does not circulate to cool off the tranny internals. Transmission melts real fast. nipper It wasn't a Subie, but I was in an automatic when it was "tow" started due to dead battery. Just had to get going about 40 MPH in low. Juan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 It wasn't a Subie, but I was in an automatic when it was "tow" started due to dead battery. Just had to get going about 40 MPH in low. Juan What was it. Also thats an an incredibly high speed. Auto trannies with rear pumps could push/flat tow start at 5-10 mph. i would NEVER suggest to anyone to get a dead car pushed to 40 mph, especially if it had PS or PB. i think there is one car out there with a rear pump, but i am not going to tell people to flat tow or push start a car and be wrong. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 I realise everything ever written says "NO you can't tow Autos...Fool!", but i've had to tow my Honda Auto for 20miles in neutral and it didnt blow up. I dont know what the technical reasoning is for saying "no towing" with autos but i think if you keep the speed down and the distance minimal it should be ok. KELTIK p.s - i accept no responsibility for tears before bedtime if this advice gets you in the brown stuff. 20-30 miles is about the limit you can tow without having to stop the car and cool down the tranny. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 It was a GMC Jimmy circa 1972. Came out of the Ski lodge in Alaska to go home at dusk and it wouldn't crank over. My dad talked someone into push starting us and telling that someone that it may have to get up to about 40mph to work. The "pusher " was skeptical and I don't know why it couldn't be jump started. I admit I was just a kid and can't be certain how fast we were going or the particular vehicle settings that were used to accomplish the feat, but I was right there in the front seat when the Jimmy kicked over and we pulled away from the "pusher". Juan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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