MischivousSlpwlkr Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 For a few weeks I've been furiously looking for a Soobie wagon to replace my dead Jeep. I thought I had finally found the one today. Its an '96 outback wagon with 127k, a new clutch, and a new timing belt. And what I was really excited about was that it had the 2.2L that everyone here raves about instead of the 2.5L that everyone says blows head gaskets. And the price was right. It didn't smoke at all when revved up at the operating speed (the first of the cars I've seen that didn't do this) It even handled well. The transmission sounded a little worn, but I was willing to overlook it until I looked under the vehicle. I noticed a very good amount of oil on most of the bottom of the engine. When I traced it it seemed to not be coming from the pan, but rather from the driver side cylinder head. Okay, its probably just a valve cover. No big deal. Then I noticed oil drips on the bottom of the timing belt case, on both the passenger and driver sides! And thus, instead of buying my dream car, I walked away disappointed again.... My question is: Is this as big of a problem on this car as I think? Or, is it a common problem inherent to the design that doesn't effect really effect the timing belt. It is a timing belt and not a timing chain, right? If it is a belt, is there anyway the oil could be dripping from BOTH sides of its case, and yet the belt is dry and not stewing in oil and grit? Also: Is smoke from burning oil when you tack the car up to 5grand or so something that most all of these engines do over 100K, or is it reasonable for me to believe that I can find another that won't smoke when I stomp on it a little? Finally: Are there any specific flaws that I should expect to find in all Subarus, but ignore b/c they won't effect longevity, and how about the things that I might miss, but really need to look out for? BTW, I've got $3500 to spend, and I really want to find a manual trans wagon, in the ny,nj,ct area, and, I need it within a week. :-\ Any help or words of wisdom you guys can give me will be much apprietiated! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickensheets Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Go back and buy that car. If a leaking $2 oil seal is the worst problem you can find let me know where it is and I'll buy it. rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MischivousSlpwlkr Posted May 19, 2006 Author Share Posted May 19, 2006 Go back and buy that car. If a leaking $2 oil seal is the worst problem you can find let me know where it is and I'll buy it. rd Its not the seal that I'm worried about...Its the fact that if oil is dripping from the timing belt housing gasket, there is oil in the housing, and that the timing belt has probably been comprimised. Meaning that the vehicle may need a new timing belt in addition to fixing the seal. I guess my question was, is it just a normal $2 problem when cars to have oil that looks like its leaking through the timing belt housing, or is it a deal breaker? Please Explain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastenova Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 In my experience the only way to tell is to rip off the crank pulley and the outer timing belt covers. I've seen motors leak like crazy out the crank seal & oil pump and the timing belt is perfect. I've seen ones that don't leak all that bad and the timing belt was somewhat sticky. Depends on driving style somewhat as well. The bottom line is that to replace that crank seal and the oil pump o-ring that is probably leaking, you have to remove the timing belt anyway. With the amount of work required to get to that point you might as well do the T-belt. It should be ~$70 from the dealer (USE a dealer belt. Aftermarket belts are much more difficult to time correctly!). So for less than $100 you'll get new front seals (I'd suggest doing your cam seals as well since you're in there) and a new t-belt that should be good for ~60K or so. I know on the 2.5L the belt had a 90K service interval but I am not positive on the 2.2L. The real question is whether you're mechanically inclined. If you can do this yourself, and have the tools, snatch that wagon up. If you can't, you're looking at about $400 for the dealer to do t-belt, crank seal, and reseal the oil pump... Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcoaster Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Just wanted to point out that I used to have a 1996 Outback with the 2.5L, and at 136K it didn't have any headgasket issues at all! I think the majority of the complaints come from 97-99 where the engine was tweaked a bit compared to the 1996. I really haven't heard from anyone who has a 1996 2.5 complain about headgasket issues. -RC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Its not the seal that I'm worried about...Its the fact that if oil is dripping from the timing belt housing gasket, there is oil in the housing, and that the timing belt has probably been comprimised. Meaning that the vehicle may need a new timing belt in addition to fixing the seal. I guess my question was, is it just a normal $2 problem when cars to have oil that looks like its leaking through the timing belt housing, or is it a deal breaker? Please Explain! This is a normal and messey sooby oil leak. It means tthat you need cam seals, main seal and oil pump seals. All these are usually done with a timing belt change (or every other belt change dependeing upon ,mileage interval). Also the waterpump gets changed too, then your good for the 100K miles (or 120 if its a 60k belt interval). This sounds scary but its not really. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru_for_LIfe Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Stay away from Subarus, they're contagious And un-bookmark this message board, it'll save you money Joking aside, other members have already given you excellent advice, I didn't think you needed mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnuman Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Go back and buy that car. With our help, you will be able to easily bring it up to perfect (or near perfect) condition, and you will never look at any other brand of car again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Boncyk Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Just wanted to point out that I used to have a 1996 Outback with the 2.5L, and at 136K it didn't have any headgasket issues at all! I think the majority of the complaints come from 97-99 where the engine was tweaked a bit compared to the 1996. I really haven't heard from anyone who has a 1996 2.5 complain about headgasket issues. -RC! Well, Gee! RC, then you haven't read any of my postings from 2 yrs ago!! Seriously to MischivousSlpwlkr -- if the price is right and you can manage to time the belt yourself (or if you have a mechanically inclined friend), then hurry back and grab that car before one of us does!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MischivousSlpwlkr Posted May 20, 2006 Author Share Posted May 20, 2006 Okay. So I've decided there's no way I can do this on my own. Dealers are quoting the repair at $800-1000. Should I go for it anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnuman Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 Okay. So I've decided there's no way I can do this on my own. Dealers are quoting the repair at $800-1000. Should I go for it anyway?yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 Well on ebay the car has been selling from 3500 to 4500 (for a low mileage car) and around 4100 in the New York State area. I would say yes, BUT i havent seen the car. Also the dealer is high on price, can be doen for a few hundred cheaper. Take the car for a test drive and go to a parking lot. Drive it in a tight circle. If you dont feel anything weird, then its a go nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 Also: Is smoke from burning oil when you tack the car up to 5grand or so something that most all of these engines do over 100K, or is it reasonable for me to believe that I can find another that won't smoke when I stomp on it a little? I just re read your original post. How are you reving the engine to five grand? Are you seeing smoke out of the exhaust pipe or from around the car (typical of oil leaking on the pipes) My car 97OBW 184K smoked a little when i first got it, but the more i dorve it, it went away. Now it just smokes in winter when i first start it in the morning. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 Are there any specific flaws that I should expect to find in all Subarus, but ignore b/c they won't effect longevity, and how about the things that I might miss, but really need to look out for? Life's a crapshoot. There are no guarantees. That said, what you've found (and I think you've been quite good in tracking down the leaks) is a rather normal Subaru speciific "flaw"--they often leak oil. The fix is quite reasonable and shouldn't be a deal breaker in my opinion. New cam and crank seals, oil pump re-seal, new timing belt and a new water pump while you're in there should give you years of trouble-free driving. Problem is you've gotta' go into the front end to do all that and that's where the expense is, labor. Can you find a good indie mechanic in your area? Are there any USMB members or Subie-lovers with grease under their fingernails who could help for a few bucks? My suggestion: Remove all emotion from the equation and go talk money with the seller. Pure business transaction. "Here is what it will cost me to put this vehicle in decent driving condition--can you help me?" See if he'll split the repair cost with you. Wave cash under his nose if you have to! Good luck and let us know what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MischivousSlpwlkr Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 So, I really appreitiate the advise thus far, and I got some more info on the vehicle. I saw a reciept showing that the timing belt, water pump, and crankshaft seal were all replaced at about 100k (its now at 127k). A mechanic told me that he thinks that on that 2.2L engine, the cam seals would not be leaking to the timing belt housing, and that the problem is likely the oil pump o-ring. He says this is a much easier and inexpensive repair. Does this make any sense? Thanks again for the help everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 So, I really appreitiate the advise thus far, and I got some more info on the vehicle. I saw a reciept showing that the timing belt, water pump, and crankshaft seal were all replaced at about 100k (its now at 127k). A mechanic told me that he thinks that on that 2.2L engine, the cam seals would not be leaking to the timing belt housing, and that the problem is likely the oil pump o-ring. He says this is a much easier and inexpensive repair. Does this make any sense? Thanks again for the help everyone. well its good news bad news. The oil pump is on the front of the crankshaft. It still mean that the covers and timing belt have to come off. The good news is that you dont need a new water pump or belt or cam seals. What you will need is the O rings in the pump, and a main seal. But it is cheaper then needing everything. Odd i got yelled at on a yahoo group for recomending changing those seals with a timing belt. The expert mechanic blew up at me for telling people to buy things they dont need. He went on to say how in 1000's of subarus he has never seen an oil pump leak. I see it here alot (murphies law). He argued that the extra hour (or less) labor it wasnt worth it. He wanted people to pay the 200-300 in labor twice (subaru fact- seals will leak between 100-200K miles). Go figure. Oddly he hasnt been heard from on the list since. nipper nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MischivousSlpwlkr Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 A final update to my saga: A few hours ago I found a new posting on craig's list near me. '96OBW, 2.2L manual, and it looked great. The engine looked waaaay cleaner. No front seal leaks, just a tiny bit of oil dripping from the valve covers and the oil pan. $2400 later I am the proud owner of my very first Soobie! WOOHOO! The Ac doesn't work, but I thought for the price, and everything else I've seen considered, it looked damn good. Thanks a lot for all the wise words, and wish me luck! MchSlpwlkr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzam Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Congratulations and welcome to our world! Keep us posted on your new ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 A final update to my saga: A few hours ago I found a new posting on craig's list near me. '96OBW, 2.2L manual, and it looked great. The engine looked waaaay cleaner. No front seal leaks, just a tiny bit of oil dripping from the valve covers and the oil pan. $2400 later I am the proud owner of my very first Soobie! WOOHOO! The Ac doesn't work, but I thought for the price, and everything else I've seen considered, it looked damn good. Thanks a lot for all the wise words, and wish me luck! MchSlpwlkr Much better. The ac is probably just a leaking O ring. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.