Numbchux Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 ugh....I'm getting very tired of this, I'll probably cough up the cash to have Shawn make me a harness when I do this swap in my lifted wagon.... mechanically, the swap is virtually done. engine's in, linkage is done, rear end is in, still waiting on rear brakes and front axles from tcat. haven't done the radiator yet, but I figure it won't need one until it runs anyway, in the meantime, it just leaves me more space to work. I'm not a total electrical idiot, but some of this stuff just leaves me stumped. anyway, I'm not getting spark. I've read Tex's thread about the same problem, but I think it's different. I'm not getting any spark, ever. neither of the ignition or fuel relays are getting power through the harness, and the ignition one isn't getting a ground. I ran a few wires just to get them to come on, and it still doens't work. so I have a feeling it's a deeper issue. This motor worked perfectly in the donor car, and was not dissasembled in any way. the entire engine harness etc. was left on the engine, and unplugged from the body during the swap. the only underhood wiring I've touched to the engine is the crank/cam angle, and knock sensor wires, to lengthen them. but I'm quite certain they all have good connections. everything on the harness seems to be grounded sufficiently, I tapped into the ground wire just to test it, and have been using it to test other circuits all day, with no problems, so I doubt that's the problem. what else could it be? I don't have easy access to a FSM, I've just been going off the chiltons/haynes diagrams, and some that my buddy printed off of the system at the garage that he works at. but I still can't figure it out... also, those that did it, how did you do the oil pressure gauge? the EJ motor just has the idiot light, but I'd kinda like the gauge to work, will an aftermarket sender fit under the alt? or should I just wire a little light to it, and if the light comes on....get worried.... there's probably more I'm forgetting, but that should do for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 I think one of the points that I like to drive home with people who are thinking of doing any type of EA to EJ conversion (or JDM to USDM) is that the mechanical is the easiest part, probably 20% of the job, it is the electrical that is the toughest part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88HatchMonster Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 I posted a bunch of info on hooking up gauges in this thread: http://ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=55389 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarutex Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 ugh....I'm getting very tired of this, I'll probably cough up the cash to have Shawn make me a harness when I do this swap in my lifted wagon.... mechanically, the swap is virtually done. engine's in, linkage is done, rear end is in, still waiting on rear brakes and front axles from tcat. haven't done the radiator yet, but I figure it won't need one until it runs anyway, in the meantime, it just leaves me more space to work. I'm not a total electrical idiot, but some of this stuff just leaves me stumped. anyway, I'm not getting spark. I've read Tex's thread about the same problem, but I think it's different. I'm not getting any spark, ever. neither of the ignition or fuel relays are getting power through the harness, and the ignition one isn't getting a ground. I ran a few wires just to get them to come on, and it still doens't work. so I have a feeling it's a deeper issue. This motor worked perfectly in the donor car, and was not dissasembled in any way. the entire engine harness etc. was left on the engine, and unplugged from the body during the swap. the only underhood wiring I've touched to the engine is the crank/cam angle, and knock sensor wires, to lengthen them. but I'm quite certain they all have good connections. everything on the harness seems to be grounded sufficiently, I tapped into the ground wire just to test it, and have been using it to test other circuits all day, with no problems, so I doubt that's the problem. what else could it be? I don't have easy access to a FSM, I've just been going off the chiltons/haynes diagrams, and some that my buddy printed off of the system at the garage that he works at. but I still can't figure it out... also, those that did it, how did you do the oil pressure gauge? the EJ motor just has the idiot light, but I'd kinda like the gauge to work, will an aftermarket sender fit under the alt? or should I just wire a little light to it, and if the light comes on....get worried.... there's probably more I'm forgetting, but that should do for now. I can't say I'm exactly happy to see you having trouble... but it does make me feel not so bad aobut having trouble myself. Especially since alot of people that have done this swap say its "pretty easy." Ok, now thats out of the way, lets clear some things up. You should have brought over atleast 2 relays, possibly 3 from the donor legacy. Those relays are the Main Relay (6 poles) Fuel Pump Relay (4 poles) and perhaps the Starter Relay (4 poles, i think) All power your ECU gets is from the Main Relay, so it must trip for any of it to work. There should be 4 large yellow or yellow/red wires coming out of it, and 2 small wires...one green, and one black. The black should be grounded, I can't exactly remember where to through the harness, but it needs to be grounded. Green wire should go to ign+. Along its length it goes to a diode, another green wire from the ecu connects to it before then. My diode is brown, and has a yellow wire coming into it, and green wire coming out of it. The yellow wire eventually connects to the yellow wire off the Alt. Plug. Somewhere on this string, it needs to get Ign+. I am unsure if it should be be on the ecu side of the diode, or on the alt. side of the diode, but currently I have mine hooked to the alt. side of the diode. Now the relay should click, when you turn the key to ON (ign+). Once you get that relay to click, you can check the Fuel Pump Relay. The fuel pump relay has 2 fat wires (one yellow, one black/red) and 2 small wires (one yellow, one green). The fat yellow should be tracable all the way back to the Main Relay. The black/red fat should go to the fuel pump. The 2 small wires should both trace back to the ECU. As long as the main relay is tripped, the small yellow should have power at it. The ECU grounds the green wire to activate the relay, and thus turn on the fuel pump. (THIS IS ONE THING MY CAR IS NOT DOING) Ok... I need to get back to work, that is kinda just off the top of my head. I'll check back. I'm pullin' for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted June 22, 2006 Author Share Posted June 22, 2006 I can't say I'm exactly happy to see you having trouble... but it does make me feel not so bad aobut having trouble myself. Especially since alot of people that have done this swap say its "pretty easy." Ok, now thats out of the way, lets clear some things up. You should have brought over atleast 2 relays, possibly 3 from the donor legacy. Those relays are the Main Relay (6 poles) Fuel Pump Relay (4 poles) and perhaps the Starter Relay (4 poles, i think) All power your ECU gets is from the Main Relay, so it must trip for any of it to work. There should be 4 large yellow or yellow/red wires coming out of it, and 2 small wires...one green, and one black. The black should be grounded, I can't exactly remember where to through the harness, but it needs to be grounded. Green wire should go to ign+. Along its length it goes to a diode, another green wire from the ecu connects to it before then. My diode is brown, and has a yellow wire coming into it, and green wire coming out of it. The yellow wire eventually connects to the yellow wire off the Alt. Plug. Somewhere on this string, it needs to get Ign+. I am unsure if it should be be on the ecu side of the diode, or on the alt. side of the diode, but currently I have mine hooked to the alt. side of the diode. Now the relay should click, when you turn the key to ON (ign+). Once you get that relay to click, you can check the Fuel Pump Relay. The fuel pump relay has 2 fat wires (one yellow, one black/red) and 2 small wires (one yellow, one green). The fat yellow should be tracable all the way back to the Main Relay. The black/red fat should go to the fuel pump. The 2 small wires should both trace back to the ECU. As long as the main relay is tripped, the small yellow should have power at it. The ECU grounds the green wire to activate the relay, and thus turn on the fuel pump. (THIS IS ONE THING MY CAR IS NOT DOING) Ok... I need to get back to work, that is kinda just off the top of my head. I'll check back. I'm pullin' for ya. yep, I got this much figured out....I think the fuel pump relay already has a ground, it needs power to the green wire doesn't it?? I got it to click by wiring it this way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarutex Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 yep, I got this much figured out....I think the fuel pump relay already has a ground, it needs power to the green wire doesn't it?? I got it to click by wiring it this way... I'm fairly positive the yellow is hot, and the green is ground. Both should go back to the ECU. However, its just a relay... so even if you switched the 2, it should still work, because it is the closing of the circuit that activates the relay. I stress, both wires do go back to the ECU, and I believe it should be left that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayn3ver Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 surprisingly, i think autozone.com has a decent amount of tecnical infor and diagrams on their site. You could also always pay to download the FSM sections you need from subaru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 If you extended the cam/crank/knock wires..they happen to be shielded wire-- be absolutely sure that none of that shielding is interfering (touching what its shielding). There is a difference in length on those wires from 90/91 to 92-94 of about 13 inches according to Kennedy (vanagon conversion wiring info provider) but their suggestion is to move the bracket off the bellhousing and rotate the knock sensor 210 or 270 degrees to accomodate the relocating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I think one of the points that I like to drive home with people who are thinking of doing any type of EA to EJ conversion (or JDM to USDM) is that the mechanical is the easiest part, probably 20% of the job, it is the electrical that is the toughest part Couldnt agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86ruguy Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 another thing about the sensor wiring extension is make sure you connected the cam wiring to the cam sensor and the crank wiring to the crank sensor....not trying to say you're stupid...just trying to help dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 I'm fairly certain the crank and cam sensors isn't the problem, I was pretty careful to not mess with the sheilded part. I did remove the three plugs from the bellhousing, and they were still 8 or 10" to short. I was looking at the motor in crappy light one night after removing the wiring from the donor car, and thought the 2 plugs were the same, so I panicked, then realized that they're different colors, so I was extra careful to keep them seperate. my understanding of the main relay, is the solid yellow wires have power all the time, the black is always grounded, and the ecu sends power through the green one, which activates the relay, allowing power through to the 2 yellow wires with a red stripe. the solid yellow ones have power all the time IIRC. anyway, regardless, I've whatever is supposed to be sending power to that relay...isn't....so I beleive that's my problem. and yes, corky, I knew from the beginning the wiring would be the hard part, but I figured I could get basic function (i.e. the $#$%$%ing motor to run) easier, and that my only real problem was getting the little accessories to work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarutex Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 my understanding of the main relay, is the solid yellow wires have power all the time, the black is always grounded, and the ecu sends power through the green one, which activates the relay, allowing power through to the 2 yellow wires with a red stripe. the solid yellow ones have power all the time IIRC. anyway, regardless, I've whatever is supposed to be sending power to that relay...isn't....so I beleive that's my problem. How should/would the ecu send power to the relay if it itself doesn't have power? (it gets it from the relay, except the small memory wire) The green wire from the relay connects to a green wire off the ecu... and then they go to the diode, then from the diode to the Alt. plug. Somewhere in this line, ign+ needs to be tapped in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarutex Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 After some google searching, I found some of the '92 Legacy FSM on surrealimages website. I then extracted the engine wiring diagrams, and have them up on my space... I'm gonna go over them tomorrow when my eyes aren't tired, see if I find anything. Hopefully this helps http://www.subarutex.com/92%20Legacy%20Engine%20Wiring.pdf Go ahead and save it... it may not last forever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torxxx Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Chux - I got a 92 FSM EJ22 in PDF format if you need it. its like 12 megs or so, so if you got a decent email account I can send it or on msn. Let me know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 Chux - I got a 92 FSM EJ22 in PDF format if you need it. its like 12 megs or so, so if you got a decent email account I can send it or on msn. Let me know Numbchux (at) Gmail.com and I'll save that one from you tex, thanks guys! I'll have a look at it this afternoon, and maybe I'll understand it better..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted June 25, 2006 Author Share Posted June 25, 2006 After some google searching, I found some of the '92 Legacy FSM on surrealimages website. I then extracted the engine wiring diagrams, and have them up on my space... I'm gonna go over them tomorrow when my eyes aren't tired, see if I find anything. Hopefully this helps http://www.subarutex.com/92%20Legacy%20Engine%20Wiring.pdf Go ahead and save it... it may not last forever! ok, I finally had time to check this out. it's identical to the one I have in my chilton's manual. What exactly does that diode do? I have power to all the yellow wire on the coil, which also powers the diode, but nothing on the green wire on the other side of it. I should have ground to the black wire, but didn't. I have power to both the yellow wires on the ignition relay. and now that I look at the diagram for the fuel pump relay, it makes no sense again.....so, I'll have to look at that all again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted June 27, 2006 Author Share Posted June 27, 2006 OK, little bump, and some new info after some testing today, we know I have fuel. I have power to the yellow wire to the coil pack, but nothing else. (ther other 2 are supposed to be momentary ground....right?). we traced those back to the igniter, which has a big black wire that goes to a ground. this is not grounded. but we can't find, anywhere, where this big grounding block is. on this diagram: http://www.subarutex.com/92%20Legacy%20Engine%20Wiring.pdf it's one of the 2 grounds in the upper right corner of page 3. I'm going to tap a known good ground into that wire under the dash (I found where it comes out of the ECU...), and see if that helps me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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